Are Pay Pond Angler's more Tight Lipped?

1

Are Pay Pond Angler’s more reluctant to share their secrets?

Pacu are a pay pond fish. You don’t have to hunt them. You just turn up at a pond and you know they are there. So one very important facet of the angling challenge is removed - finding the fish - and another facet becomes more important - fooling them into taking your bait.

Tackle and techniques, bait selection and presentation become the main factors in consistent success. And you don’t want to tell everybody how you do it because they can then turn up at the same pond as you and enjoy equal success. Which means fewer fish to go around and a much quicker decline in effectiveness of the bait or presentation you’ve been using.

True or not?

2

Hi Marlin,

I didn’t have much time fishing lately but been told; tested twice that black grubs 3-4cm is so deadly for Pacu. Other color is said not to be that effective. Tested other color as well, and it work. BUT still have more confidence using black grubs since ‘heart’ keep on asking to use black grubs. Why black? even some fly fisho believed in black fly(rabbit fur thingy)for pacu. ANd still black.

Popping for pacu at night seems to bee effective at Kelana Jaya Pond. They were using all white poppers(hand painted/sprayed). They used breads as berley and slow pop that area; tried, almost work and miss the fish.

And black grub doesnt seems to work at night. This is mystery lah.

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3

Interesting theory Rob.

It seems the opposite of the haruan thread.

The haruan are mostly caught for table and are wild fish. The challenge there is finding them. In those threads on the other species discussion people will tell you what methods work and how they caught them, but won’t share where from.

Like you say, pacu are known to be in certain ponds and are mostly CnR (not very tasty apparently). The challenge here is not finding them. The challenge is having a winning method to catch them - which invariably works for only a short period of time before the fish get wary of it.

So, in summary, haruan hunters might share methods not location and pacu fishos will share location but not methods. (and any methods shared will be more generic ones like bro sild has mentioned - if anyone has a radically different but killer method are we likely to see it here?)

(just my opinion)

4

So let’s start with the fish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacu_(fish)

Powerful build, slab sided with a big tail, but not a pointy shaped sprinter like a barracuda.

Small mouth for it’s size with crushing and grinding teeth, not sharp and pointy teeth for grabbing and holding or cutting. Teeth look a lot like ours! Yes, it bites through mono easily, but not because the teeth are sharp like a Toman’s teeth, rather because it has a very powerful crushing bite.

Teeth designed for crushing hard outer casings of fruits, nuts, seeds and berries, not eating other fish. It will have a go at a golf ball in Tow Foo, but probably not take a live baited Kelih. Possibly eats crustaceans - crabs and shrimps and crayfish with hard outer shells that need crushing?

Monocular vision (eyes set on the side of it’s head), so good all round visibility, but not good for judging distances. Certainly not an ambush preditor.

Probably omnivorous. Few fish will pass up a worm or a grub, even if they are not apex preditors.

Mouth pointing forward. Allows it to feed midwater and in particular off the surface, where many fruits, seeds and berries are found. Will also “up end” and pick food up from the bottom, but not a grubber of the bottom, like a catfish. Free swimming fish, not one that sits around and doesn’t move much.

Probably doesn’t expect it’s food to move? Hence the references to long pauses when lure fishing.

Inhabits pay ponds. According to the references, can be eaten and might even be quite good!

5

attee, wehh!!!

marlin,

i shared my baits with about everybody who wants to try my banana fritter balls (cekodok pisang) on pacu at their ponds. i only tried them at choong’s at they ALMOST never let me down. others might have tried them elsewhere but i have not received any success story


= “Angler Team Mangkor” =
“Team Mangkor U4 - 2006”

“If you tell what people want to hear, they will listen.”

“Be grateful, don’t be a great fool”

6

Pacman, you sir are a true gentleman!

7

Bros[:D], try 1/8 oz (3.5 gram) jighead size 1/0 hook with 2" or 3" black grub. Popular method with baitcasters.

8
quote:
Originally posted by Sild
Hi Marlin,

I didn’t have much time fishing lately but been told; tested twice that black grubs 3-4cm is so deadly for Pacu. Other color is said not to be that effective. Tested other color as well, and it work. BUT still have more confidence using black grubs since ‘heart’ keep on asking to use black grubs. Why black? even some fly fisho believed in black fly(rabbit fur thingy)for pacu. ANd still black.

Popping for pacu at night seems to bee effective at Kelana Jaya Pond. They were using all white poppers(hand painted/sprayed). They used breads as berley and slow pop that area; tried, almost work and miss the fish.

And black grub doesnt seems to work at night. This is mystery lah.

[IMG]
http://longkanggang.blogspot.com

U3-Team Orang Kampong
U4-Team Longkang (1st runner up)
MFN Billfish Series (2nd,Group Categories)
U5-LKG Ribena Boys (2nd Runner up)

Yes. it’s true ! using popper n bread is really effective on Pacu at Kelana Jaya Pond. but some other places r not that effective base on the water colour n temp.

There’s a pond at Tumbun near Juru at the northern side, the Pacu there doesn’t respond to bread n popper.

9

as for me..i usually use 2 rods. One rod for berleying..usually i cast to a same spot continously which would attract small fish..then i used the other rod using sof plastic, live bait or any other type of method to get your catch for the day.. as for me where there is a bait fish..so will the ‘others’

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10

This is getting more like it. We are getting nearer some “substance” I can use to catch Pacu for myself! Keep the ideas coming.

Here’s one from me. I like EWG worm hooks in soft plastics. They give me good hooking power and if you’ve followed the Haruan species thread, you’ll know they don’t lodge in a Haruan’s eye sockets too much. I use them on Pacu as well. On smaller Pacu, they tend to get a hold behind the teeth and protect you from a bite off because the hook shank is what touches the teeth, not the line, so you can use mono leaders with confidence. I’m using EWG hooks in other forms of fishing too, with similar results. They are not just for soft plastics. You do need to strike hard when you set the hook because you need to drive the hook point into hard jaw, but it seems to work consistently well.

Note how the hook point is up, in typical EWG hook fashion. Driven home like this, the fish is unlikely to get off during the fight and your finness mono leader is never near the teeth, so you won’t get bit off either. Go light in heavily fished waters (pay ponds) and you’ll hook more fish. Use EWG worm hooks in your baits and you’ll land more as well, with less damage to the fish and an easier unhooking and release process.

What rigs do others use to catch their Pacu? How do you avoid the bite offs?

Oh, and get rid of those aweful bomb rigs with multiple hooks! This is 2007, not the 1800’s!!! You only need one hook to catch a fish. Single hooks are far less damaging to any fish you want to release and just as effective. There isn’t usually much of a hike to the waters edge at a pay pond, so no excuse for not carrying a good sized landing net with you too. Keep the fish in the net while you unhook it. It’ll stay wet, stop it thrashing so much and protect it from damage. You can even release it from inside the net unless you need a picture. If you handle the fish, wet your hands first so you don’t rub off the protective slime. Never hang a larger sized fish by it’s jaw from a bogga grip. Always support its body. You can always weigh it in the net and subtract the weight of the net to get an accurate weight.

11

Here I rig my hook and it is 95% effective, save from the pacu teeth.

I use bread as bait, mostly the bite happened while the bread is in free fall.

quote:
Mouth pointing forward. Allows it to feed midwater and in particular off the surface, where many fruits, seeds and berries are found. Will also "up end" and pick food up from the bottom, but not a grubber of the bottom, like a catfish. Free swimming fish, not one that sits around and doesn't move much

No wonder the bite seldom happened when the bait sit at the bottom.

12

Bela

SImple and effective. You are right, nothing is 100% pacu proof. They are not predators that attack a bait fish consistently from behind or in the middle. The baits they grab are very irregular too.

If all your hook (with or without swivel) is inside the bread, bait or soft plastic, you never know which part the pacu will bite and whether or not it will bite you off.

I use EWG hooks like rob (and sometimes a swivel and snap but much smaller than shown above) and still get bitten off occaisionally.

13

attee, wehh!!!

bro bela,

striking similarity with the rig i’m using (will post pics later). Do you use a sinker with that or is it weightless? mine, i use a sinker at the end and with the rig suspended in the middle, so the bait will be about a foot above the bottom. at choong, floats are not allowed.

maybe tomorrow, i’ll try without a sinker but i doubt it i can cast it far.


= “Angler Team Mangkor” =
“Team Mangkor U4 - 2006”

“If you tell what people want to hear, they will listen.”

“Be grateful, don’t be a great fool”

14

Pacman, that is another interesting point raised.

Pacu prefer the bait to be presented midwater and ideally freefalling slowly. They are the wrong shape and have the wrong type of mounth to be grubbing around the bottom of the pond, particularly if very silty and muddy. They will take baits fished hard on the bottom but I feel that you get more bites if not. When bait fishing, a paternoster is a good rig (sinker at end,bait in middle). However, this creates a lot of line mid-water which is exactly where the pacu will be swimming.

A better approach is to pop the bait off the bottom. Have the hook at the end this time and a running sinker in the middle in a more conventional style. Have a hooklength of around 1 foot (you can experiment with this, right down to just a few inches is still very very effective) but put some cork / foam / polystyrene around the snap and swivel part (enough to make the bait bouyant) and bait up as normal. Make sure you test this at home first and also each cast to make sure it floats (it will take some experiment to get right, your bait should just float)

This way the line is on the bottom, under the pacu so it wont run into the line and spook off.

Try it, you may get more bites.

15

Like this;

http://www.fishing.visitwales.com/fe/fileupload_getfile.asp?filePathPrefix=1758&fileLanguage=e.pdf

Be careful in your selection of weights and stoppers. Unlike carp which can be hooked on a short hook length “bolt” rig, a Pacu needs to get your bait into it’s mouth without feeling much resistance. Despite their appearance, their teeth and their reputation for pulling rods into the pond, they can be surprisingly delicate in their feeding habits.

16

well be what ever rig i’m using, as a rule of thumb i always use a minimum 1ft 20 ilb leader tied to a circle hook whcih is more then sufficient to land a pacu.

as for bait use, range from cheese flavoured hot dogs cut into cubes, birds eye chilies (chili padi, )to freshly baked gardenia bread. mash banana fritters sound interesting with vanilla ice cream but only for my stomach.

cheers

17
quote:
Originally posted by pacman007
attee, wehh!!!!

bro bela,

striking similarity with the rig i’m using (will post pics later). Do you use a sinker with that or is it weightless? mine, i use a sinker at the end and with the rig suspended in the middle, so the bait will be about a foot above the bottom. at choong, floats are not allowed.

maybe tomorrow, i’ll try without a sinker but i doubt it i can cast it far.

Mine is weightless, sometime i can cast up to 30 m. My rod is 6lb-12lb with 6lb Fireline. After casting i just left the line slack. It is very shiok to see line thighten as it try to run away with the bait. As i said earlier it seldom take the bait at the bottom. I think Fizzy’s method is more practical, I’ll try it later.

18

In hard body luring, no many fish rivals the sheer early runs and ofcaz malformed hooks. Rule of the thumb, dun finger the early runs of the fish(if not u will have to replace hooks).

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19

attee, wehh!!!

tried the weightless rig… no go! too light i can hardly go 15 meters and the windy morning took it all over the place. luckily not as many people were there…

my session at chhong today started at 8.00 am. 1st 30 minutes i can hardly sit down and landed 6 medium size pacus. the guy across the pond started earlier than i but hardly had a single strike. he then drove halfway around the pond to see what bait i was using. showed him my cekodok he just smile. i offered him some but he was reluctant until i shoved 4 cekodoks into his hand. he took it across and started again and within 20 minutes he caught 2 and he set aside his dedak/pallete stuff for a while…

by 9.30 i probably caught 15 pacus when the frenzy slowed down and b 11.00 plus injury time, i lost count of how many. i took back 4, and the rest weighted 16 kilos… i got back RM21 against RM19 entry fee. not bad for a guy now the labelled ‘The Cekodok Cikgu’


= “Angler Team Mangkor” =
“Team Mangkor U4 - 2006”

“If you tell what people want to hear, they will listen.”

“Be grateful, don’t be a great fool”

20

Marlin, the EWG hook is effective. I tied 2 of them at the middle of a leader and use a sinker at the bottom. Hooked up with baitfish caught at the pond and there’ll be immediate strikes if I throw exactly at groups of pacu playing around. I believe pacu will strike watever that fall in front of them .. sometimes they will bite off my 30lb leader too.

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