Art, realistic, semi realistic or fishing flies?

When I was judge in the WTO (World Tuscany Open) fly tying competition the first year it was held, I got into a huge dilemma when I was doing my work as a judge in my search for the winning flies. There wasn’t a category of realistic flies at that time. We were with about 10 judges and a few other judges had exactly the same problem.

Imagine you looking at one of the most beautiful and realistic flies you ever seen but the fly surely would have serious problems to cast or to fish with. You also know that the fly wouldn’t catch many fish either because the fish simply wouldn’t take that fly. That makes judging a real hard job and that is why the organizers now also have some special categories for realistic flies.

You have many flies in the world that catch more fly fishermen then it ever would catch fish. You have flies as real art, you have realistic flies, semi-realistic flies and then you have the fishing flies.

When I am asked to pick the best fly from a fly box, I surely would grab the fly that would catch the most fish in my point of view. It doesn’t mean that other flies are tied bad or useless but that’s the way I am thinking. Right now I only make flies to catch fish but it wasn’t always that way.

I only can speak for myself and what I have seen happen with other fly tiers that I know very well too. When I evaluate my own fly tying I must confess that it went through several stages. And I have seen this happen with a lot of other well know fly tiers as well.

When I started fly tying in 1976, I started with shoulder hackle flies. Simple flies like the Red tag, Palmers, Greenwelsh Glory, Wickham Fancy, Panama’s and so on. I was actually a real purist (dry fly only) until 1981.

First while fishing in Scandinavia so much and when I got involved more and more into synthetic fly tying materials and the Swedish fly tying styles my fly tying started to change a lot too, mainly because I really WANTED to copy the flies from my Swedish friends that caught so much more fish then my own patterns did.

then since 1981, I went through another but real big fly tying stage in my life. A stage in which I only wanted to fish with my own tied or own designed flies. After that I got into tying nymphs and quite seriously too. First the real heavy nymphs, then unweighted nymphs and I really wanted to catch all fish with them. In the late eighties I even got spider mania and was into Yorkshire spiders for a while. Then I dabbled for about 7 years in full dressed salmon flies which I didn’t do so bad but far from those people you see at the shows today. The reason why I stopped is simple, my wife gave them away to her friends to put them on their dresses or hand them in their ears and I simply got a lot more fish with ahirwing salmon flies. Much much more!

Then I tied a year mainly streamers. Tied hundreds of saltwater patterns for sea trout fishing in the Battic sea, dry flies for salmon, Inconnu flies, The lake trout flies and on and on. Over all the years I used thread and feather like crazy and tied most Parachutes and realistic fishing flies to match the hatch.

So I do realistic flies a lot but except the full dressed salmon flies, I never went really into ART flies, simply because I think it is another hobby. Oh don’t misunderstand me. I have a lot of respect for the Art fly tiers and I learn a lot from them. Tying very realistic and art flies is really great, especially to improve your fly tying skill and share your skills with other people. When you really want to get into art flies you must have loads of time and a real good source from which you ge tmaterials. Anyway, tying art flies helps you a lot to teach other people how to work with feathers and hackles. I love to tie realistic flies but only when they will attract the fish and catch fish of course. What I mean is fishing flies.

When I tie flies, for me personally I always keep a few things in mind and at very high priority. When I want to copy a fly from another person I want to know the thoughts behind the fly and why certain materials were used and so on… When I tie to match the hatch, size, mobility, shape, color, durability and silhouette are my priorities. For example: A streamer that can’t pulse and can’t move it’s materials well I never would tie.

A nymph that mainly live on the bottom I never would tie without leadwire and free swimming larva I only want to tie with very mobile legs.

I will try to give you a sample how I see match the hatch. It doesn’t mean that as I see it, will be the perfect way but what I try to show you is that most of my flies are tied with deep thoughts behind them and in a perfect harmony between natural and synthetic fly tying materials.

that is the real free swimming larva

and this is how I copied it in 1985. The fly is known as the Caseless caddis

I make 3 versions depending on the waters that I meet;

1 layer leadwire
1 and a 1/2 layer leadwire
and 2 layers of lead wire

how to tie the entire pattern you can find at:

http://www.danica.com/flytier/hklinken/caseless_caddis.htm

OH Dron I would judge YOUR Cricket into the fishing flies. Foam because high floatation and because the pheasant tail legs what creates the mobility.. [:D]</font id=“purple”>

have fun

Hans

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. I totally agree with you on realistic and fishable flies. Realistic flies is beautiful, nice to look at but mainly is to capture the flyfisherman himself. Sometimes an ugly looking fly catches more fish than a realistic looking one.
Personally for me, I like to look at and admire the beauty of realistic fly but I seldom tie them myself (too time consuming and lack of materials). Realistic flies are more of a test of one tying skill.
Tying a dun with 2 tails, 3 tails, a bunch of hair does it really matter? To me all of them catches fish. All it matters is as long as you are happy with your ties and they catches fish thats all it takes.

cheers
trouty

Very stimulating read there Hans. Thanks for sharing.

I have just started fly fishing (at most 2 yrs) and still taking casting lessons. I agree with you fully that to tie a fishing fly is much much more simulating than making a realistic that stays in a shadow box. But the realistic flies are a huge draw for me. The first tying book I bought was actually Flies as Art by Paul Whillock haha. I was intrigue and from the techniques in the book it actually taught me how to tie better fishing flies. So I view realistic as a means to improve and push the limits of tying (I don’t agree on stick on realistics heh heh) fishing flys. But I am of the school who prefer to fish with something both beautiful and work rather than just a bunch of hair and furs [:D] (sry trouty, I am just different [;)])

[url="http://longkanggang.blogspot.com/"][img]http://www.pbase.com/lapala/image/70743584/original.jpg[/img][/url] [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/LaPala/Do_It_02.gif[/IMG]

I agreed with you Hans… The flies that catch fish are the flies that have ‘life’… I mean ‘life’ that built into the flies… the right material that give ‘actions’ in the flies even they are pause… the material that give ‘life’… I realize, all your flies have that…

I also believe fish have good eye sight… some scientist say fish can’t see colour… well… I’m not a fish, I can’t say that is right or wrong… question like why you tie in fluoro green in your leadhead nymph and not red…? I believe fish does see some sort of spectrum… or colour… it part of the ‘life’ that we built in to the flies…

In EAK… where we fish for Jelawat… our river carps… in stillwater, they actually raise and look at our flies… if your flies does not match the size, colour, shape, action… no way they will take it…
We tried burley with life cricket and cast our flies at the center… if your flies are ‘dis-qualify’… that will be the only ‘insect’ left on the surface…

Thus… I started to look into another type of flies… fishable realistic pattern… a flies that will catch the eye of fly fisherman and the fish… your caseless caddis is an good example of fishable realistic fly… Steve Thornton’s flies are fishable realistic flies… but Paul Whillock flies are ‘mostly’… realistic Art fly… ( he also have some fishable realistic pattern… )

I am learning how to tie realistic flies… But I only ties them for my friends… just to catch them rather than fish…

There are millions of fly pattern out there… a vast ocean of knowledge for me to learn… I believe I will also someday going tru the evolution like you… tying different type of flies pattern at different stage…

I always try to copy proven fly patterns, whether for freshwater or salt. So I guess these are mostly, if not all, flies to catch fish. However I always admire the talented fly tyers who can tie realistic representations of the fishes’ food items.

In Malaysia, I’ve always lamented the fact that there is so very little study done on the bugs that our Malaysian fishes eat. This applies especially to the bug life in our hill streams and jungle rivers … be it nymphs, emergers, duns, terrestrials, or berries and fruits …etc.
Malaysian entemology has not been studied from a fly fishing point of view, imho.

In the salt, we are a bit luckier I guess, as the warm water fishes and salties are quite common to those in other parts of the fly fishing world…eg. a clouser and deceiver works as well here as in Florida or Australia.

And of course, we are so lucky there is a forum like MFN that allows us to share, to compare notes and to motivate us to tie flies that we think can work here. Thus we are indeed lucky to have people like HVK and Dron to so generously share their knowledge and skill with us.

<><ICHTUS><>

quote:
Originally posted by dron.fly
I agreed with you Hans.... The flies that catch fish are the flies that have 'life'.... I mean 'life' that built into the flies... the right material that give 'actions' in the flies even they are pause.... the material that give 'life'... I realize, all your flies have that....

I also believe fish have good eye sight… some scientist say fish can’t see colour… well… I’m not a fish, I can’t say that is right or wrong… question like why you tie in fluoro green in your leadhead nymph and not red…? I believe fish does see some sort of spectrum… or colour… it part of the ‘life’ that we built in to the flies…

In EAK… where we fish for Jelawat… our river carps… in stillwater, they actually raise and look at our flies… if your flies does not match the size, colour, shape, action… no way they will take it…
We tried burley with life cricket and cast our flies at the center… if your flies are ‘dis-qualify’… that will be the only ‘insect’ left on the surface…

Thus… I started to look into another type of flies… fishable realistic pattern… a flies that will catch the eye of fly fisherman and the fish… your caseless caddis is an good example of fishable realistic fly… Steve Thornton’s flies are fishable realistic flies… but Paul Whillock flies are ‘mostly’… realistic Art fly… ( he also have some fishable realistic pattern… )

I am learning how to tie realistic flies… But I only ties them for my friends… just to catch them rather than fish…

There are millions of fly pattern out there… a vast ocean of knowledge for me to learn… I believe I will also someday going tru the evolution like you… tying different type of flies pattern at different stage…


Very interesting sayings Dron. I also do believe that fish see colours although I don’t have a clue how they see it. I just believe in it and I learned by own experiences that strong beliefs in certain thoughts led you to more success even if the thoughts are completely wrong.

With ATlantic salmon fishing for example I strongly believe in feeding memory of the fish. The longer they stay in the river the earlier their feeding memory will be and that’s my explanation why I have caught many salmon on may flies and sedges!!!

Sometimes I let people pick a fly from my fly box and sometimes they grab a fly I never ever fished with. They catch fish with it because they belief it must be a good fly because it comes from my fly box.

There always are big discussions about colours of flies. For example why black or dark flies are so successfull during twilight. Some think because the twilight black flies are seen better for the fish, other people think let the fly look bigger from the fishes feeding lies. Another group thing the fish went through a complete change and their eyes have to settle for a kind of night vision. I don’t know. All what I know is that direct sunlight has some influence on the colour of flies. I discover this when using spider flies (not spider immitations but Yorkshire spiders) They have bodie colours from silk and if the sun disapeared behind a cloud I often had to change to colour to get successfull again. When the sun got back I grab the othe rpattern again! It works for me so I belief in it.

What a lot of people doesn’t know is that many insects have a body colour that is a mix from several colours. Check it out with a loop when you catch a big mayflie or sedge and you can see it. That’s why I love using Fly Rite Poly dubbing for dry flies because many of these colours are blended and therefore this dubbing is perfectly to match the hatch.

Another important fact about direct sunlight that I discovered in relation with dry flies over the years is that the wing size has indeed a huge impact on the sillouette of the fly when there is direct sun light and when there isn’t.

I will share with you one of my big fishing tacticts that I use for understanding fish better because most people don’t think this way. I change flies mainly or most of the time when I catch a lot of fish because if the fish are in a good taking mood and I change the flies I can see and learn MUCH better what their reaction will be on different patters. This is also an excellent way to discover what colours fish likes the most. Most people stock with the fly they are using but I have discovered that in a situation like that I keep catching fish with completely different patterns. as well. Soemtimes it really doesn’t matter what pattern you using, sometimes only 1 pattern works.

Most people keep changing flies all the time when results staying out and when they catch a fish that’s the fly they belief is what the fish are feeding for or attracts them. I don’t say this doesn’t work because you have to work this way also in some waters and circumstances but I find the other way more reliable especially with river fishing for native fish. (I have no experiences on the flats about this yet hihihihi)

In my private fly fishing I always ignore the behavour of stocked fish because I think they grow up completely different and act really weird and against all rules. 80% of my fly fishing is done in wild rivers and remote lakes so that is where my skills and experiences really are. I have NOT much experiences with stillwater fishing in lakes that are stocked.

Hans

quote:
Originally posted by tonywee

In Malaysia, I’ve always lamented the fact that there is so very little study done on the bugs that our Malaysian fishes eat. This applies especially to the bug life in our hill streams and jungle rivers … be it nymphs, emergers, duns, terrestrials, or berries and fruits …etc.
Malaysian entemology has not been studied from a fly fishing point of view, imho.


Tony,

I highly promote catch and release and I fish 98% catch and release and barbless myself. In those 2% that I take a fish I usual camp out or stay deep in the wilderniss or at very remote places for a longe rperiod of time. In that case I sometimes eat my trout, graying and even pike. I love to eat fish too. So I don’t have anything against people that take and kill their catch as long the play is done decently, the fish killed in a quick way and the numbers reasonable. I hate it when fish ending up in the dustbin.

But here comes my entomology… of course I always look underneath stones and in the weeds when I fish a new or different river system too but at the times I sparcely kill a fish I do a huge stomach research and collect everything inside and this is exactly how the Klinkhamer Special, Leadhead and Casless Caddis are born too!!! You finally have to know what fish is eating and where they are after…

Hans

Here some patterns from a few very talented friends from Italy!

Hans

Beautiful collection there you have Hans…

I like the shrimp and squid which the moving parts that you put in… the ‘life’ that you have given to the flies…

The silhouette of the bugs…are a killer… very realistic and I believe you fish with them…

The Crab… wow… awesome… especially the legs…what do you use for the leg…? does they move…?

Looking at the heptagenid nymph… I believe you must be tying it on a very small hook… good tie there… very detail for such a small fly…

Thks for sharing… more picture… more… more…

Dron…The flies from Italian friends. Not mine.

Dron sees the heptagenid nymph he doesn’t read any more haha

[url="http://longkanggang.blogspot.com/"][img]http://www.pbase.com/lapala/image/70743584/original.jpg[/img][/url] [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/LaPala/Do_It_02.gif[/IMG]

then he surely will love this one tied by a very good friend of mine. She is absolutely one of the greatest female fly tiers in Europe today!

Together with her husband they won dozens of fly tying competitions!

their website:

http://www.fishingflies.com.mk/

Hans

Special for Master Dron

Here one of my realistic fishing flies [:D]

Oh it has been fished for a day of two, that’s why it looks not as nice as it should be.

Hans

quote:
Originally posted by HvK
Special for Dron

Here one of my realistic fishing flies [:D]

Oh it has been fished for a day of two, that’s why it looks not as nice as it should be.

Hans


It’s so beautiful… really…!!! this little one got ‘life’… you have given her soo much of lively element…

Thats what I intent to do when I am tying realistic flies. Finding the perfec harmony between synthetic and natural materials. Although my legs choice is NOT that realistic on this fly it gives an awesome mobility and a great movement and that’s why I stick to legs like this. I also catch more fish when legs are really moving very nicely!

THat’s why I love rubber legs on dry flies so much. Well to be honest …I finally got my 2 biggest fish with something floating with very long legs hihihi. That motivates too to stay loyal to legs with lots of motion.

http://www.ffinternet.com/html/flytying_dries_bm.htm

Hans

Ya… that’s a beautiful mice pattern… I bet the Taimen and Pike in Mongolia will not hesitate to take it… and also our local Tomman fish…

Wow, that is a huge laker Hans!

the mouse pattern i tied for mongolia is somewhat similar to blair’s mouse. instead of the “lifejacket”, i put a longer profile popper head in front(you can also buy mouse shaped foam bodies, Nick gave me one) and stuck prismatic eyes on for good measure.

the wake is a very nice V and i especially like the moment it accelerates when you cast it across the opposite bank and wait for the fly line to catch the current. when it does it will rip(not skate) right into the center of the current noisily and settle into a nice V shape. when the mouse reached downstream of me i popped it back a bit on the retrieve before going on to the next cast. I noticed that my mouse solicited the most attacks just as it swang into the current.

I actually tied 2 versions; one with the popper head inverted. when tying my mouse i really was not overly concerned whether it looked like a mouse or not, but how it floats and how much noise it would make. my main concern was making a mouse big enough to interest the fish, yet i would be able to cast it properly.

By the way, i caught lenok with your caseless caddis Hans, along with montana style nymphs, they worked very well on the Chuluut! I didn’t know it’s called caseless caddis… i thought i was tying a scud pattern?! haha!

dennis

ok here some of my semi realistic damsels and dragon flies

Hans

[quote]Originally posted by Steelhead

Wow, that is a huge laker Hans!

the mouse pattern i tied for mongolia is somewhat similar to blair’s mouse. instead of the “lifejacket”, i put a longer profile popper head in front(you can also buy mouse shaped foam bodies, Nick gave me one) and stuck prismatic eyes on for good measure.

You know what???

I tried to fish with these kind of mice without any legs and guess what??? YUP, no aggressive bits anymore at all, so the secret absolutely is the movement of the legs of this pattern in combination with some retrieving techniques!!

Hans

Real ART

Hans