Bag Limit anyone?

Hai guys,

Been so long thinking about this. It should be good to give some ‘thinking’ about it now

We do need one NOW!!! Temenggor’s fisheries is getting worst with lots but small sebarau.

Kenyir is still a good place to fish despite ‘old timers’ said that it used to be much better before. It’s never too late to start now.

TIME FOR ACTION : Ketengah and Fisheries Department is the key agencies in doing this; maybe PERHILITAN too. Met KETENGAH and FISHERIES people on other projects before. They are open to ideas especially for he improvement of Kenyir.

Kenyir definitely needs some action here; bag limit, size limits etc. We’ll try to make it as a ‘kind of rules’ for Kenyir enforced by the above agencies. This should be done much earlier.

Fishes in mind :

  1. Kelah
  2. Kelisa (rampant fry collections in Kenyir by boatmans, locals)
  3. Toman
  4. Sebarau
  5. Belida
  6. etc.

Ideas please?[;)]

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http://longkanggang.blogspot.com

U3-Team Orang Kampong
U4-Team Longkang (1st runner up)
MFN Billfish Series (2nd,Group Categories)
U5-LKG Ribena Boys (2nd Runner up)

Couldn’t agree with you more bro Sild.

I do not have much comments on this but maybe we could use the Australia’s Department of Primary Industry as a stepping stones. It has been implemented for quite some time and the locals can never thank them enough. Likewise, its all in the government’s effort in doing so.

Here is the website, download those Adobe files as you scroll down to read more in depth;

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nrenfaq.nsf/LinkView/038067B67D8D0260CA2571F6007C592FB43DB2A1BECEB2A04A256812001DD817#bag

Hope this helps..

once an angler, always an angler

Nope… the authorities alone cannot do the job coz typical government servant way of doing things is always kenot jadi wan.

It is us to do on our own accord. Must educate all anglers to apply bag limit and practice ethical fishing by advocating sport fishing.

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Champion - Individual

Apa dikesal dengan kepupusan ikan, ayuh tangani kerakusan manusia!</font id=“blue”></font id=“size3”>
Don’t regret about fish extinction, just stop human’s greediness!</font id=“red”></font id=“size3”>

Ikan kita adalah warisan yang tak ternilai. Puliharalah ia demi generasi akan datang.
Our fish is a priceless heritage. Conserve it for future generation.

Pushing the angling limits! Lu tatau pancing jangan cakap tada ikannnn!!![:D]

Ah…the perennial call to arms following the wet season slaughterfest in Kenyir, Temenggor and other major waters in Malaysia.

We’re slow learners here on MFN!

I’m afraid that without effective legislation and enforcement with heavy fines for those caught, there are too many anglers taking too many fish. The limiting factor is the fish stocks. When they run out, we won’t need to cut and paste from last year any more!

I believe whole hearted in the concepts of size and bag limits and CnR fishing. I also practise them and encourage others to do the same. Without laws, so I can report abuses, progress is a little slow.

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Good start Sild! Suggest adding one more species Tengalan.

Think we need both soft approach through education and campaign and hard approach through legislation and law.

R&L and Pancing magazines have an important role to play as most anglers can’t miss to read the mags beginning of every month. Publication of some photos in Chinese R&L few months back showing massacre of monster badungs happened in the early years of Kenyir was a disappointment. Nothing mention on bag limits or C&R. History is repeating itself every year as anglers, after reading such articles encourage to go for maximum and biggest catch on par with commercial scale.

great idea,i think its a long awaited decision which should have been implemented yesterday

Sild, the response to your plea has been poor. The number of views is low. People just don’t read this conservation section, nor are most readers in MFN much interested in bag limits. Post this thread in the Bahasa Malay section, next to some of the recent Kenyir Lake trip reports and see what a response you get!

MFN readers are probably the best educated, most well informed and environmentally aware section of the angling community in Malaysia. This is as good as it gets, Bro.

And yet, if one were to read many of the threads on MFN, one could be forgiven for thinking Malaysia is unique in the angling world. It apparantly has fisheries which are unaffected by the actions of rod and line fishermen. It has fisheries immune to overfishing. It has an angling community that believes responsibility for any ills in the angling world rests with someone else and that any problems should be cured by someone else, usually the government.

I do believe that in the continuing education campaign, Rod and Line Magazine has a vital role to play. At present, there are far too many inconsistencies in the presentation of the magazine and mixed messages conveyed to its readership. There are a couple of letters to the editor in the English version this month, one from me and one from Fizzy illustrating such inconsistencies. We need to see more of this so the editor and contributors also start to get the message.

I think the Bahasa Chinese version is worse judging from the photographs in it. These magazines need to carry a more consistent message.

I’m afraid that for waters like Kenyir and Temenggor, without legislation and enforced size and bag limits, the future is rather bleak. Unless Malaysia’s fisheries really are unique!

Bag limits need to be specified per angler, but also per boat. House boat trips allow large groups to fish economically and large groups of anglers can quickly take large numbers of fish from the areas popular with these operators. This also needs to be curbed by having boat limits stricter than the sum of the guys aboard.

Perhaps designated nursery areas, which are no go areas or strictly catch and release only areas can be set up to allow fish to breed and spill over into less restricted areas.

A stricter licensing system for boat operators and guides with infringements of bag limits resulting in loss of operating licenses. This would ensure boat operators themselves look after the resource with a little more vigour than they currently do.

Authorities also need the power to stop and search fishing vessels to make sure limits are being observed. Fines need to be imposed for offenders. With limited access points to get in and out of the area, it shouldn’t be a big deal to police the numbers of fish being taken by anglers. This is actually the hardest bit of any legislative measures, because it causes resentment, usually among those who would break the law. The guys that observe the limits probably have no issues with being stopped and checked. In fact, they would welcome it.

Commercial activity needs to be scrutinised and it’s contribution and importance to the local economy assessed. No good punishing anglers with bag limits when commercial activity remains unchecked. This really would be giving anglers a raw deal.

There are rays of hope in the continuing efforts to educate anglers. A few enlightened individuals still take the time and trouble to write. But they also need to be seen to be consistent and fair in their behaviour. They set the standards for the rest. I don’t usually carry a fillet knife with me when I fish! The single mouthful of sebarau I tasted on our trip to Kenyir was my first taste of a Malaysian freshwater fish since I got here 3 years ago. Too many bones!

Rompin is a fine example of what can and should be done in Malaysia’s fisheries although with the attitude of most anglers, it’s an irony I have yet to figure out. Why do anglers release their sailfish where everywhere else the hunter gatherer mentality still prevails? If guys can afford a 4 wheel drive SUV and a boat, they don’t really need to be netting and they certainly don’t need the income from the fish they catch. Yet, I see this all the time in Malaysia. Why is this?

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Marlin,
Couldn’t agree with you more. There is more talk about CnR, Bag limits, etc but till this day; it has sadly been talk only.
about 10 years ago, the Fisheries dept had a dialogue with PeMM, Rod and Line and if not mistaken IGFA as well. The purpose of this dialogue was to thrash out the pros and cons of licensing, bag limits etc.
Unfortunately, the Fisheries reasons for the licensing was not for conservation but more for revenue! They did not have plans for restocking, habitat protection, etc. Thankfully (in a way) there was no final approval to the proposal.
I am still very much in support of bag and catch limits, etc but it has to be in the right context. It is really frustrating to know that we as NGOs or individuals are promoting CnR and the next moment we have some Govt officials coming up with “reasons” as to the presence of trawler boats within 5 nautical miles of shore as there have the license to do so!
Conservation requires commitment and cooperation from all parties! We can only do so much within legal means to promote it! The choice to practice it is entirely based on education and one’s conscience!

RainbowRunner

Tightlines and screaming reels

quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
Sild, the response to your plea has been poor. The number of views is low. People just don't read this conservation section, nor are most readers in MFN much interested in bag limits. Post this thread in the Bahasa Malay section, next to some of the recent Kenyir Lake trip reports and see what a response you get!

PLanning to do that earlier, but been caught up with works, will definitely do that now, thanks.</font id=“blue”>
MFN readers are probably the best educated, most well informed and environmentally aware section of the angling community in Malaysia. This is as good as it gets, Bro.

And yet, if one were to read many of the threads on MFN, one could be forgiven for thinking Malaysia is unique in the angling world. It apparantly has fisheries which are unaffected by the actions of rod and line fishermen. It has fisheries immune to overfishing. It has an angling community that believes responsibility for any ills in the angling world rests with someone else and that any problems should be cured by someone else, usually the government.

I do believe that in the continuing education campaign, Rod and Line Magazine has a vital role to play. At present, there are far too many inconsistencies in the presentation of the magazine and mixed messages conveyed to its readership. There are a couple of letters to the editor in the English version this month, one from me and one from Fizzy illustrating such inconsistencies. We need to see more of this so the editor and contributors also start to get the message.

I think the Bahasa Chinese version is worse judging from the photographs in it. These magazines need to carry a more consistent message.

I’m afraid that for waters like Kenyir and Temenggor, without legislation and enforced size and bag limits, the future is rather bleak. Unless Malaysia’s fisheries really are unique!

Bag limits need to be specified per angler, but also per boat. House boat trips allow large groups to fish economically and large groups of anglers can quickly take large numbers of fish from the areas popular with these operators. This also needs to be curbed by having boat limits stricter than the sum of the guys aboard.

Perhaps designated nursery areas, which are no go areas or strictly catch and release only areas can be set up to allow fish to breed and spill over into less restricted areas.

These areas have been selected and close for anglers all year round at least some rivers in Kenyir and Temenggor. Slighly better arrangement in Kenyir where they chained the river mouth entrance but not in Temenggor when people can ‘snake’ inside.

In Temenggor, they close those raeas and start logging; that is another story.</font id=“blue”>

A stricter licensing system for boat operators and guides with infringements of bag limits resulting in loss of operating licenses. This would ensure boat operators themselves look after the resource with a little more vigour than they currently do.

Have yet to see a fishing operator in Temenggor or Kenyir who’re really guarding their ‘cooking pots’. They encourage people to take loads of fish back, some for foods in their boathouse. They also scooped back angler’s catch which were released.

They themselves; after knowing that us anglers have been catching Kelisa,in less than 10min, starts their tiny boats and went to the very same place to catch their fries; they came back few hours later with several small Kelisa. Wrote something on it last year, pity didn’t managed to get it published.</font id=“blue”>

Authorities also need the power to stop and search fishing vessels to make sure limits are being observed. Fines need to be imposed for offenders. With limited access points to get in and out of the area, it shouldn’t be a big deal to police the numbers of fish being taken by anglers. This is actually the hardest bit of any legislative measures, because it causes resentment, usually among those who would break the law. The guys that observe the limits probably have no issues with being stopped and checked. In fact, they would welcome it.

They said, Perhilitan is enforcing a stricter rules this year; but saw no improvement.</font id=“blue”>

Commercial activity needs to be scrutinised and it’s contribution and importance to the local economy assessed. No good punishing anglers with bag limits when commercial activity remains unchecked. This really would be giving anglers a raw deal.

Some data few years back shows legal commercial fishing in Kenyir itself; believed it have been banned last year(?). BUT the culprits still remains which are the very same persons who are supposed to be the ‘guardiance’ of Kenyir. Quite shocked to find out during recent trip this year; where the guy behind us who chatted with us during the breakfast break at Kuala Berang is one of the police-guards in Kenyir. And the very same person last year put nets and rawai near Terenggan river. On the brighter side, maybe he had changed; and starts being a patrol-guards there which i doubt.[;)]</font id=“blue”>

There are rays of hope in the continuing efforts to educate anglers. A few enlightened individuals still take the time and trouble to write. But they also need to be seen to be consistent and fair in their behaviour. They set the standards for the rest. I don’t usually carry a fillet knife with me when I fish! The single mouthful of sebarau I tasted on our trip to Kenyir was my first taste of a Malaysian freshwater fish since I got here 3 years ago. Too many bones!

I don;t carry a fillet knife and don’t own one too but many do. In this case, it’s like “one man;s meat and another one’s poison”.
Local still are crazy with freshwater fishes; mostly bony fishes. yes the more bones in it like Terubok (Hilsa macrura) the better.
Sebarau is one of the best freshwater fishes to eat if prepared nicely. I took back 3 sebarau after that trip(despite some comments given to me that myself alone took 50 fish back home); gave it to my mother in law in Kerteh and that meal is the best sebarau i ever tasted!!! </font id=“blue”>

Rompin is a fine example of what can and should be done in Malaysia’s fisheries although with the attitude of most anglers, it’s an irony I have yet to figure out. Why do anglers release their sailfish where everywhere else the hunter gatherer mentality still prevails? If guys can afford a 4 wheel drive SUV and a boat, they don’t really need to be netting and they certainly don’t need the income from the fish they catch. Yet, I see this all the time in Malaysia. Why is this?

Hopefully the mentality will change in Malaysia; people are still taking sailfish back in west coast peninsula. Itt might have been a good businees nowadays in east coast peninsula that the operators is guarding their assets.</font id=“blue”>

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http://longkanggang.blogspot.com

U3-Team Orang Kampong
U4-Team Longkang (1st runner up)
MFN Billfish Series (2nd,Group Categories)
U5-LKG Ribena Boys (2nd Runner up)

Bro Sild, I have no problem at all with taking fish back to eat, within reasonable and sustainable limits. In fact it’s the strongest argument there is for continuation of sportfishing in the face of accusations of “cruelty” from less well informed activists. We must alway retain the right to keep a fish to eat, whilst still looking out for the future of our sport.

Since you mention our particular trip, I’m always greatful to LKG and PAW and the great angling community in Malaysia for inviting me to visit these places first hand. It’s an experience not to be missed and I really do enjoy the social interaction, if not the midnight karaoke! It also enables me to see first hand some of the problems faced by fisheries in Malaysia. It allows me to comment with some degree of credibility rather than being an armchair enthusiast. It’s my sport, it’s my hobby, it’s me. It’s what I do. And I’d like to think sportfishing has a future, here and elsewhere. It’s why I actually care!

But by the same token, such trips allow me to see the negative side of things too. Individuals and names are unimportant, but our trip killed too many fish. I have no idea what a sustainable limit is in Kenyir, but I saw several houseboats in the same area we were. It’s not rocket science to multiply the numbers of fish, the numbers of boats and the numbers of trips per season for each of these boats and come up with TONS of fish being removed from Kenyir by 'sportfishermen" alone.

I didn’t count exact numbers for our boat, but it must have been in excess of 70 fish. Another thread on MFN shows a picture of another houseboat trip with over 100 fish taken. So it’s the majority of boats doing this rather than the exception. With 20+ guys aboard, 70 fish is only 3 fish each, which probably doesn’t sound excessive. With less pressure from fewer anglers, this is probably OK, but we’re talking houseboats with many individuals all wanting to take their “limit”, not limit their take. So our houseboat removed (lets say) not 3 kilos of fish (your share), but 70 kilos of fish, which is probably not sustainable given the numbers of other boats in the area. Our boat was probably right back out there in a day or two with another party of anglers also taking similar numbers of fish home.

So, as a fisheries manager, you either reduce the numbers of anglers or you reduce the take for the houseboats and have stricter bag limits to prevent overfishing of relatively small areas by the multi day multi angler houseboat trips. And if your captain and crew are irresponsible and doing bad stuff and no-one is fining them, locking them up, revoking their licenses or taking any action to prevent them destroying their own livilihood, then we anglers shouldn’t use them again and you tell all your friends not to use them.

Both our trip and the others I read about released many fish as well I’m sure. This is good and an encouraging sign. It shows anglers are aware of sustainability concepts. But it’s too easy to say it’s OK, we’re releasing fish and justify ones actions by saying eveyone else is worse. It’s easy to say we only come once or twice a year, but so do the all other groups fishing there day in and day out as well.

We’re still taking too many.

Unpleasant and unsavoury as it may sound, the reality is that releasing fish should be the norm and killing a fish should be the exception and strictly limited by bag limits. I enjoy fishing and just being there. I don’t have to fill an ice box to the point where it takes 2 or 3 guys to lift it in order to say I had a great time and enjoyed my trip. I can come home fishless and still be happy.

It’s disturbing that so much blame is laid elsewhere and there is too much reliance on someone else to sort out the problems when anglers themselves, even those that do release a portion of their catch, probably are not doing enough themselves to prevent declining fisheries.

Hell, even my 7 year old son knows “if everybody kills the fish they catch, there will be none left for tomorrow”.

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Marlin,

When you get groups harvesting 50 to 200pcs of fish per trip.. the tonnage adds up… Of cos there will be no improvement…

Predominantly Malaysian Anglers are MeatHunters… you get a few here and there who practices CnR and Bag Limits… but most of them will take fish home…there will be 2 Million excuses and reasons for why they do so…

I believe in Bag Limits and CnR… perhaps a good start is within MFN… start our own regulation on Bag Limits and Sizes… there is no better pklace to start this than home.. if we can cultivate this behaviour and way of fishing perhaps there might be some hope…

I wish you the best in Championing this cause and you have my support… hehehehehe
Cheers

No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha

It’s because anglers think in terms of themselves. I didn’t take very many. I release many of my fish. They do not take a holistic approach and consider the fishery, which is being hammered day in and day out by other fishermen who also don’t take very many!

If they took ownership of the well, rather than just the individual buckets of water they themselves take from it, things might look a little different.

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quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
It's because anglers think in terms of themselves. I didn't take very many. I release many of my fish. They do not take a holistic approach and consider the fishery, which is being hammered day in and day out by other fishermen who also don't take very many!

If they took ownership of the well, rather than just the individual buckets of water they themselves take from it, things might look a little different.

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I totally agree… there is no hollistic view, very much so that many or little is very subjective and there has been arguments about this… when it comes to freshwater and saltwater fishing…

Everyone has their views and wants it to be respected…hehehehehe

My own personal practice is in general not to take fish home, be it the sea or in fresh water… but if I want to I take one fish per trip… and that is dependant on the size and species… and when in doubt I rather not take any… and I never blame and point fingers at the Nelayan’s or the netters as they are making a living that is they have their own demons to slay… I would rather start the ball rolling from within and with my kaki’s… I do make mistakes and I learn as I go along… it is far better for me to admit my faults, learn and improve rather than be thick headed about this issue…

So I do hope you can come up with some general guidelines in which most of us would be able to follow…I look forward to seeing and using these guidelines…

No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha

My guidelines to you would be

“start the ball rolling from within and with my kaki’s… I do make mistakes and I learn as I go along… it is far better for me to admit my faults, learn and improve rather than be thick headed about this issue…”

Drink what you will from the well, but remember others use the well too.

Marlin's TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME campaign

quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
My guidelines to you would be

“start the ball rolling from within and with my kaki’s… I do make mistakes and I learn as I go along… it is far better for me to admit my faults, learn and improve rather than be thick headed about this issue…”

Drink what you will from the well, but remember others use the well too.

Marlin's TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME campaign


I guess I already have the ball rolling hahahahaha… yipee… but what about std guidelines as to size and qty… it would be good if we can have a universal MFN guideline.. if all were to follow mine it would sond a bit too extreme for most… whenI go fishing in the big Damns and lakes…I only keep what i want to eat for dinner.. and that is about it…

PS: The trip I spoke to you and Fizzy about is confirmed for this Sunday… u free to join..and is Fizzy back already

No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha

These are good general guidlines;

http://www.fishing.net.my/default.asp?ACT=5&content=7&id=1&mnu=1

I take no credit for these. Aznir is ahead of his time!

I’m free for Sunday. I’ll have to check with Phil when he’s coming back.

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quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
These are good general guidlines;

http://www.fishing.net.my/default.asp?ACT=5&content=7&id=1&mnu=1

I take no credit for these. Aznir is ahead of his time!

I’m free for Sunday. I’ll have to check with Phil when he’s coming back.

Marlin's TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME campaign


Excellent … do you have my number… send me a text if you do .. if not here it is… 013 388 4900

It will be Sunday morn. till evening .. athats about it hehehe…

No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha

To limit he anglers to Kenyir or any other fishing grounds is harder than to implement bag limit or legal size limit; which is why we’re debating in this. KETENGAH definitely want to boost the tourism at Kenyir; limiting anglers is not their target although we may mentioned the depleting stocks due to our activities. Somemagencies works differently. Pulau Payar for instance is having so much ourist that their corals is being smashed to pieces; many voices their opinions on this to limit tourists etc; but the end they brought in more and bigger boats. The authorities is looking into RM sign here.

PERHILITAN is charging RM15 for entrances to Taman Negara area. These should be a ‘kick-off’ start for enforcement. Like Markin mentioned eralier; if there’s no legal requirement, rules etc..then us and other anglers will still bring back catches since there is only our ‘mental guideline’ that guides us. If we thing release 5 in our total 10 fishes caught alone is enough. BUT is that enough?

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http://longkanggang.blogspot.com

U3-Team Orang Kampong
U4-Team Longkang (1st runner up)
MFN Billfish Series (2nd,Group Categories)
U5-LKG Ribena Boys (2nd Runner up)

Saw the table.. looks pretty decent hehehe… gonna print it and keep it in my tackle bag… but nothing has been said about Pb and also Salt species which I think is just as important to be regulated

No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha

You don’t actually want to limit the number of anglers (MORE MONEY SPENT ON FISHING). Just limit their impact (MORE FISH FOR EVERYONE TO CATCH). I actually meant limiting the number of anglers per house boat, thus minimising the concentrated effect of the housboat concept.

The whole problem of minimising impact is a multifaced one. Pulau Payar needs the income from tourists, but those same tourists are destroying the thing which they come to see. Sounds familiar doesn’t it? There are usually several possible solutions to any particular problem. In the coral reef example, instead of fewer bigger boats, just install permanant mooring bouys and ban anchoring on the reef. Pulau Payar must reinvest some of those tourist dollars and put in those moorings in order to sustain it’s income. If it doesn’t it’ll be a short lived boom town! Just like fishing trips to Kenyir.

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