Dont know true or not la…I just heard that there are actually not much differences between “Made in China” and “Made in USA” rods under the above brand. It seem that all their blanks are made in China. What they did was to shipped certain models/blanks spec back to the US of A for some minor works such as assembly of rings, reel holders, etc and VOILA…Made in USA…that fool/made us anglers pay thru our nose for them.</font id=“purple”>
Born To Golf
Live To Fish
Forced To Work
Nowadays it is real difficult to find something that is not made in China !
Coming back to your point, to me, it is the culture that surrounds the manufacturing process - do they have a culture that makes them proud to produce a good quality product ?
Secondly, in the case of outsourced manufacturing of components ( very common ), what are the quality controls that are in place to guarantee that the finished product is eventually worth the money ?
My own personal guide is that I will buy if their pride in manufacture equates to my pride of ownership.
I have mentioned this before, my Fin Nor Estima reels are made in Bangla Desh - but I am still happily using them every time I go fishing ![:)][:)][:)]
… nearly forgot … I also use the St Croix Premier series rods which I bought years ago … but I don’t know who made them.[:D]
Welcome to ..globalization.
Mass production (manufacturing) are all going to countries with cheaper/cheapest source of labour. As long as there is proper QC, the end product should be OK.
better go and Japan leh..
sure high in quality..
and sure to burn your pocket one…
but believe me it will worth all the efforts…
fortunately I’m not ‘all’ in the craze but only selected few…
not pouring cold water on anyone, but here’s my take.
not all MIJ(made in japan) stuffs are great. not all MIC(not our local political party, but Made In China) products are poor.
i’ve seen MIJ shimanos perform poorly when compared to MIM(made in malaysia) reels. same model, different batch.
i’ve seen MIJ rods being poorly built as well.
MIC products are top notch if there is proper QC. they are the biggest manufacturers in the world now. we as buyers just need to scrutinize harder when buying, that’s all.
it’s just hype, branding and ego. some can get over it. in the end, it’s the angler that wins. that’s all that counts. if u feel like u can only use something made in japan, go ahead if that boosts your confidence.
i’ve fished with anglers who only have the best equipment one can only imagine, yet they can’t fish properly/poor catch result/product failure etc while i have also fished with people who uses the regular mainstream products and outperform in every aspect.
it’s a matter of style, sense of belonging to a certain group, peer pressure, that dictates the buy 80% of the time.
we as anglers sometimes pursue the wrong thing. i’d rather spend the money on a nice trip and nice experience rather than pay through your nose for a freakin ‘customised’ reel handle etc…hahahhaha…(not to say i haven’t before lah)
just remember its the people, the group, the experience, the fishing. bling bling tackles are just for ‘Show & Tell’ teh tarik sessions.
anyway, dun take me too seriously lah. just my 2 yen.
back to the topic by wkl,
i’m not sure what are the production criteria to meet to say ‘made in X’, maybe 75% etc…
i don’t have problems with made in chino or botswana for all i care. i care when it’s claimed to be made somewhere but then in truth is made elsewhere as they more often than not, overcharge for no gain.
made-in-usa, like printed on a few of my St Croix rods, does not hold water anymore. holding on to a name just for the namesake with no improvement in quality/price just does not go too well with me, especially if pricing is steep.
for an example, i have a few wonderful made-in-china rods like the Shimano Salty Shot & ABU rocksweeper which are priced steeper than similar Made in USA St Scroix rods. i’ll gladly pay for the quality, styling etc. because in my opinion, they are worth it.
so if ur pocket allows, go ahead and buy MIJ, MIUSA products. but don’t turn a blind eye to MIC stuffs, they more than often may present a better, healthier alternative if u look deep enough!
just my another 10 renminbi
[:D]
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WAR: it’s not about who’s RIGHT, it’s about who’s LEFT
Errrr…sorry chaps…but I think things/comments are getting a little out of context…what I started off is not questioning MIC, MIA, or MIJ quality. What I really wanted to comment is the unscruplous way of brands manquarading the actual country of origin/manufacture to get us anglers or those who like to shiok sendiri to pay top price for something that is similar if the country of origin is stated as somewhere else so called more prestigous.
Take for example…blank A…if stated as MIC…the price would be X…however if the same blank A would carries as MIA or MIJ..then the price would be Y or Z…now is that being fair or is it plain rip off?</font id=“size2”></font id=“purple”>
Born To Golf
Live To Fish
Forced To Work
WKL bro,
yes. rip off it is. please read the last few paragraphs from my previous post. whatever it is, somehow the discussion will boil down this path. i’ve been in these ‘made-in-X’ discussions a few times already in my entire MFN life, back when there weren’t any tackle room on MFN. the posts and replies are usually off topic in some other topics. [:D]
there are some ‘made in sweden’ reels out there which share a lot of parts with their ‘made in china’ items. the handles, the drag star, the knobs…so as to how far a reel needs to have a certain percentage to qualify for its stated origins, i am not sure. for all u know, only the ‘main’ parts like gearing & housing are made in sweden, but the rest are machined in china, packed in malaysia etc…
it all boils down to company conscience, and consumer confidence. by putting MIJ or MIUSA, they appear more marketable. so if the need be, then some may unscrupulously do so, even when knowing that it may not be true.
some lures are described this way ‘materials from japan, assembled in phillipines’.. so was it made in japan or phillipines? up to u to decipher. at least this lure manufacturer was decent enough to inform us. some other unscrupulous luremaker would probably claim ‘made in japan’ for the same scenario.
there are also some rods out there of dubious origins that prints ‘made in japan’ on them… how do we know, especially if these products do not appear on search engine results…
so if u feel cheated by St Croix, then move on! there are better deals around. however, if u are die hard SC fans, then proceed with caution.
maybe u should email SC and ask them what are their criteria for calling their rods MIUSA. theoretically, let’s divide the rod into a few sections, namely guides, reel seats, grips, blank, binding thread & finishing, and lastly workmanship/assembly/rodbuilding.
as far as i know, the Fuji guides are made in japan, the Fuji reel seats are made in japan as well. the cork may be from portugal/spain? EVA from china? the blank MIUSA? binding threads say Gudebrod or PacBay from USA, flexcoat say from USA, and all these stuffs were handwrapped in USA. so, if according to this calculation, only 4/7 are MIUSA.
or maybe even the blanks are made in china, leaving only the assembly/building of the rod is in the US of A. does that qualify as made in USA?
the problem is in how they define what constitues ‘made in usa’.
if the criteria is that it must be assembled in USA disregarding origin of materials, then it is made in USA.
if the criteria is that more than 50% of the components must be from the USA, and must be assembled in USA, then it is made in USA
if the criteria is every component must be made in usa, and must be assembled in usa, then it is made in usa.
so, the next time i build a rod i will label Made In Penang. i made it in penang whaaat…although i got the guides & reel seat from Japan, the EVA & blanks from china, and the wrapping materials from USA. Penang boleh!
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WAR: it’s not about who’s RIGHT, it’s about who’s LEFT
St Croix and G.Loomis are the two makes that i trust. These are the two makes that i’d put my money on.
FYI, all St Croix blanks are rolled in their Springfield factory. The top of the range models such as the Legend Extreme are definitely rolled and finished in Springfield Wisconsin. Don’t be fooled by it’s price point, even the Premier series rods are rolled and finished in St Croix’s Springfield plant! Even though cheap compared to the upper St Croix ranges, Premier blanks are one of the most sensitive out in the market for that price point, even two-piece versions!
In addition, the lower end range the likes of mojo bass and Triumph for example, all these blanks are still designed, developed and rolled in Springfield, but they are hand-crafted in St Croix’s Fresnillo plant in Mexico. Meaning, the balancing, guides, grips, paint, real-seats, etc. are all hand finished.
Hence, true to St Croix’s marketing slogan, “made in N. America” [:D]
As for other brands, they could come from anywhere in the world. I’m not sure about other manufacturers, but St Croix and G.Loomis are definitely not ripping any of their customers. They offer one of the best after sales service and warranty of any rod manufactures in operation to-date. In my opinion, it’s the local sellers that ripping anglers off. Not St. Croix! you pay for what you get and if any seller is selling at the price that doesn’t warrant the quality of the products, just don’t buy from them.
My fishing site @ http://fishingboy.multiply.com/
So, for some of us ( like me ), we do not care who makes it - as long as we get the performance and quality for what we pay for.
For others, it is the truth of the claim that is the issue. Have a look at the advert for " iZUMi " lures in the Australian " Freshwater Fishing " magazine.
In their case, they claim " Top Japanese designer and manufactured in the finest Chinese lure factory ". This probably is an example of how they can be honest, and at the same time address the question of making things cheaper so that more people can buy their products.
Right alongside the above claim, they also say " Brings the best that money can buy to Australian Fisherman at an affordable price "
So coming back to wkl’s point, iZUMi is probably more to the mark - they state the facts for everybody to clearly see ?
If I am not mistaken; to qualiflied as “MADE IN”; the local content have to be 50+%, meaning the raw materials have to be from the country of origin. On the other hand, “ASSEMBLED IN” may not have to conform to this criteria.
Now if only the blank is “MIA” and the rest of the components such as guides, reels seat, handles, treads and others are made elsewhere, dont you think “ASSEMBLED IN” would be the more appropriate description?</font id=“purple”>
It’s about time the fishing equipment industries streamline some “International Description” guidelines so that we anglers/clients know exactly what we pay for [even if it’s just a dream[V]]</font id=“purple”>
Born To Golf
Live To Fish
Forced To Work
The public perception’s of items made in country-A is better than country-B (or vice-versa) is ‘relative’. The same goes for fishing rods and other items. the common perception that stuffs made in developing countries have lesser quality than stuffs made in developed countries is a difficult one to distinguish and cannot always be generalized.
But, if I am paying more for premium items, i’d like to know that it originates (meaning the item has to at least be designed, engineered, and manufactured) from its country of origin. Raw materials may come from multiple countries so that’s a different story all together. Traditionally, countries the likes of Japan and Germany take pride in their cutting edge technologies. Least is there to say about the good working ethics and culture. Hence, that’s why some items cost more than others, if priced accordingly. That’s my take and my opinion. other’s may beg to differ.
My fishing site @ http://fishingboy.multiply.com/
good discussion…
MFN wouldn’t be this merrier w/out you guys..
FB and FT..
there’ nothing wrong to belief in anything..
as long as you know what’s right…
again..many sifus here agree…experience and skills
are the two best bets to get things done…
regardless of what the brands are
even the cheapest set can land a decent fish…PERIOD..
FOR WKL..
keep reachin’ for the stars…
if you can afford heaven why would you buy hell instead…
i’m just an amateur that likes to nag…
pardon me for being silly…
hazadin,
The problem is we pay heaven but sometimes get hell[:D][:D][:D]</font id=“purple”>
Born To Golf
Live To Fish
Forced To Work
Lol If tackle makers earn nuts, we will still be using handline and buluh rod.
nowadays very difficult for them to cheat on anglers. more options in the market… blind loyalty to brands won’t get you far.
anglers do more research and read online for opinions, enriching their knowledge.
many a times, when i ask specific things to the sales rep they either go ‘oh, that one ar. no news yet lei..’. sometimes i will have to ‘inform’ them on certain things which is like sort of counter productive.
actually, we as consumers decide what they should sell to us, not the other way round.
not happy with something, then move on. got greener pastures elsewhere. [:D]
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WAR: it’s not about who’s RIGHT, it’s about who’s LEFT
Wow!!! Caution!!!..FireTiger spotted prowling at 1.29am…[:D][:D][:D]…</font id=“purple”>
Born To Golf
Live To Fish
Forced To Work
not only 129am, sometimes 3 am, 4 am, 5 am… hahahhahhaha…
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WAR: it’s not about who’s RIGHT, it’s about who’s LEFT
quote:
Originally posted by FiR3 TiG3R
not pouring cold water on anyone, but here's my take.not all MIJ(made in japan) stuffs are great. not all MIC(not our local political party, but Made In China) products are poor.
i’ve seen MIJ shimanos perform poorly when compared to MIM(made in malaysia) reels. same model, different batch.
i’ve seen MIJ rods being poorly built as well.
MIC products are top notch if there is proper QC. they are the biggest manufacturers in the world now. we as buyers just need to scrutinize harder when buying, that’s all.
it’s just hype, branding and ego. some can get over it. in the end, it’s the angler that wins. that’s all that counts. if u feel like u can only use something made in japan, go ahead if that boosts your confidence.
i’ve fished with anglers who only have the best equipment one can only imagine, yet they can’t fish properly/poor catch result/product failure etc while i have also fished with people who uses the regular mainstream products and outperform in every aspect.
it’s a matter of style, sense of belonging to a certain group, peer pressure, that dictates the buy 80% of the time.
we as anglers sometimes pursue the wrong thing. i’d rather spend the money on a nice trip and nice experience rather than pay through your nose for a freakin ‘customised’ reel handle etc…hahahhaha…(not to say i haven’t before lah)
just remember its the people, the group, the experience, the fishing. bling bling tackles are just for ‘Show & Tell’ teh tarik sessions.
anyway, dun take me too seriously lah. just my 2 yen.
back to the topic by wkl,
i’m not sure what are the production criteria to meet to say ‘made in X’, maybe 75% etc…i don’t have problems with made in chino or botswana for all i care. i care when it’s claimed to be made somewhere but then in truth is made elsewhere as they more often than not, overcharge for no gain.
made-in-usa, like printed on a few of my St Croix rods, does not hold water anymore. holding on to a name just for the namesake with no improvement in quality/price just does not go too well with me, especially if pricing is steep.
for an example, i have a few wonderful made-in-china rods like the Shimano Salty Shot & ABU rocksweeper which are priced steeper than similar Made in USA St Scroix rods. i’ll gladly pay for the quality, styling etc. because in my opinion, they are worth it.
so if ur pocket allows, go ahead and buy MIJ, MIUSA products. but don’t turn a blind eye to MIC stuffs, they more than often may present a better, healthier alternative if u look deep enough!
just my another 10 renminbi
[:D]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/FYRTYGR/FTlogo.jpg[/IMG]http://longkanggang.blogspot.com/
WAR: it’s not about who’s RIGHT, it’s about who’s LEFT
Nowadays so many types goods are made in China for markets in US, Australia and NZ where the people are used to quality goods, I believe they are made to certain standards. I paid for a pair of slippers for RM9.90 in Texco. A pair of slippers with similar apperance but with a Croc brand is RM100+ in Mid Valley. I said similar appearance but not the quality. Anyway the Chinese slippers have been used daily and been to many fishing trips for the last 2 years but show no signs of wearing out yet.
hmm..where do i get this cheap alternative rods…i fall in love with ultra light st croix in TCE showroom..cost rm 6++ this is not something you can buy every day..so its time for me to start filling my piggie bank..maybe..
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