Fishing Deep Structure Part 1, 2, 3 and 4

If you wish to get the best from your bottom fishing session, you need to anchor upcurrent of the structure so that as you let out the anchor rope, the boat drifts back to a position uptide of the structure so that baits can be dropped back right into the most fishy spots. Boat A has the right idea but he’s too far from the structure. He needs to let out more rope to get his anglers a bit closer. They may be able to drift baits back into the fishy area by using lighter weights and he may be able to chum some fish towards the boat for his anglers to catch. Boat B is spot on. His anglers are catching a ton of fish. He may have to adjust his position as tide strength changes to keep his anglers right on the sweet spot. Boat C isn’t thinking. He’s parked the boat right over the structure and his anglers are catching nothing at all. “Don’t understand why, we’re right over the structure and I’m marking fish, but you guys can’t catch them!”

Before you anchor the boat, mark the structure with a marker. A length of fine nylon line with a heavy weight attached and a plastic drum on the end will serve as a marker. Those big plastic juice bottles are good. Rope needs to be adjusted to something a bit longer than your bottom sounding, so it floats. To the first plastic drum, attach a second on a few feet or rope. The first drum is your marker to the structure. The direction of the two drums on the surface indicates the current direction. Now you can anchor the boat up current, let out rope and see where the boat is in relation to the structure. You can also gauge how much effect the wind is having on the way the boat lies and adjust for it. The anchor rope can be attached to the bow cleat or cleats on the fore quarter to push the boat one way or the other if you are slightly off line.

In strong currents, it’s often difficult to get your chum stream going where you want it to. Most of the chum goes over the top of the structure. You could attach a bag of fish scraps to the anchor, but this is often too far from the structure or may even pull fish away from the boat. You also can’t check it to replenish the supply. Attach a mesh basket full of fish scraps to your downrigger with the 10lb ball and lower it down to the desired depth. The chum is much more effective that way and you can easily top it up with fresh scraps from time to time. The bad news is we’ve sometimes lost the basket, downrigger ball and a few feet of cable to sharks!

Don’t forget to pick up your marker before you leave. Please don’t throw rubbish over the side while fishing. Take all your rubbish home with you. Big plastic bin liners are useful for this. Get the heavy industrial ones so they don’t split and tie one in an easy to reach position in the boat.

Excellent writeup Marlin, thank you. I can relate to all these quite comfortably, as I fish in 10m to 500m, but most regularly in 25m to 60m. Gropers, bluenose, kingfish, albacore, yellowfin tuna, marlins and broadbill are species caught from 200m and deeper. Snappers are most commonly caught species in shallower waters.
Undoubtedly a chartplotter with fishfinder is an essential tool to maximise and enjoy one’s fishing experience. Fishing offshore without it, one might as well bring a picnic basket to enjoy on the water [:D]

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006

Thanks, Bluenose. One thing I found interesting with regard to structure and water depth is that in all my years fishing in Ujung Kulon, I’d never seen or heard of an Amberjack being caught. We never got them trolling. Water temperature is above 80F all year round and these fish prefer cooler water. When I first started deep jigging, I hadn’t seen all the latest gear and jigs from Japan and we still used mono line which wasn’t very good since we started getting big Dogtooth which would bust us up even with locked drags. We used 3 or 4 oz crippled herring jigs from the States back then. The line stretch was sufficient to allow them to reach the structure and bust us off. Then I started to use Japanese jigs and superbraid lines which improved things enormously, but also allowed us to fish deeper. This is when we discovered that there are indeed Amberjack in the these tropical waters and in fact, as these Japanese techniques took hold and jigging became very popular, they have become quite a regular catch. Deep jigging, which has advanced because of both better electronics and a mini tackle revolution, allows access to a completely untapped fishery.

We’re already seeing downscaled Big Game trolling tackle with very small, but strong reels that are plenty big enough to hold sufficient superbraid for trolling and I think we’ll continue to see a revolution in downscaled tackle in Big Game Trolling. This will eventually extend into all facets of the sport including heavy tackle Marlin fishing in places like Kona and Cairns. I also predict that there will be an explosion of soft plastic techniques in blue water. Already on Arimbi we carry a rigged spinning rod with fine fireline on a 2000 to 4000 sized spinning reel with little jig heads and such plastics as Slider Grubs, Squidgies, and many others in size ranges of 1 to 3 inches. When we encounter surface activity and tuna are feeding on tiny whitebait, a small soft plastic flicked in there will get a response when nothing else will. Usually it gets hit on the drop and you don’t even need to wind. Do 50lb yellowfin tuna eat 1 1/2 slider grubs? You bet they do.

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the illustration, that’s what most sea
anglers need, how to anchor up current of under water
structure and to present the baits to the fish column.
Your write up covers most aspect of good boat handling,
as well as a knowledgeable and experienced skipper who
can elaborate on the various tactic used for trolling,
drifting, popping, jigging and bottom fishing, so far
you have provided the best write up I ever read in this
forum. Even though I have been going sea fishing for so
many years, I still find your posting very interesting,
everything falling into the right places like what I have
been doing in the Spratlys, it is just like refreshing
my memories for my coming trip in early May. Thanks for
sharing man!!

Fish tight…fish right!!! Thomas

I’ve got some more interesting stuff coming up!

Good stuff, Marlin!

Your writeups concurs with what we observe.

Different species tends to “hang” at different location relative to
the structure.

For bottom-fishing here in Penang:

  1. Groupers would be mostly inside the structure and only dashes out for a bite

  2. Snappers will be in the vicinity of the structure, the smaller specimen
    would be closer to the structure (probably for protection and place
    to hide), while the bigger specimen tends to roam further from structure

    So, to land bigger snappers, don’t get too close to the wrecks!

  3. Barracudas are free roaming and would be a little bit further from the
    structure and can be caught at various depth.

  4. Tenggiris would hang upcurrent of a tall structure, it always seems
    the taller the structure the better.

    Likewise, baitfish like indian mackerels, sardines, etc.

Marlin, perhaps you can also illustrate structures, like a depression
at the bottom. I find that most of the bottom fish would hang at
the “slope” instead of at the deepest part of the “hole”.

Cheers

[img=left]http://photobucket.com/albums/v214/petestop/kalak.gif[/img=left]


Come on… make my day!</font id=“size2”>

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Petestop, I’m relying on you guys to fill in some of the gaps in what I write, especially when it comes to local knowledge. Your observations are very pertinent and appreciated. Please helpout with some of the local subtleties which I obviously can’t write about with any authority. Chip in with any additional info where needed.

Part 1: Finding structure

Part 2: Mapping structure and building a mental 3D picture

Part 3: Finding the fish on structure

Part 4: Interpreting fish and their behaviour from your sounder

The structure I have drawn is a simple one because it’s easier to illustrate the principles. One of my intentions with this series of articles is to help people to think about their fishing. If I take people fishing, I don’t just want to catch them fish. I want to help them catch more fish for themselves.

Many of the structures that I fish are larger and more complex than the ones I have drawn. Some of them have several crests along their length and if the structure is cut by a depression with crests either side, even if there is a larger crest, you’ll get fish on this secondary location. Some of the structures have other structures nearby and sometimes the gap between two nearby structures can be very productive too. Some of the best structures I fish regularly are those situated right on the edge of the dropoff. They may rise to 100ft from the surface, with the shallow side being 250ft and the deep side being 1000ft or more. These are especially attractive for XXL fish of various sorts, especially when the current is running in from the deep side, even at an oblique angle. Here there are big dogtooth, amberjack and sharks (we get LOTS of sharks on jigs).

Tenggiri do indeed seem to orient on tall structure, but like any preditor, find the bait and you’ll find the bigger fish. The key to fishing structure is to understand what types of bait you have, where it will be, what the prefered prey species of your quarry is and what sort of attack method is prefered by the species you seek. You’ve touched on it yourself.

Where I fish, tenggiri prey predominantly on rainbow runners which are very common. They are present in huge schools of 2kg fish. Tenggiri feed on these, not small bait. Tenggiri are very well equipped to deal with large prey since their teeth are like razors and the jaws are designed for slicing, not grabbing and holding. They are also very streamlined for high speed. This in itself tells you tenggiri will not be hiding behind a rock waiting to grab a passing bait fish and bolt back to their hole. Groupers do this, not tenggiri. Find the rainbow runner, which are uptide of the structure, usually close to the surface. Look for the larger arches below the school and these will be tenggiri. They cruise below their quarry, launch a high speed sprint attack from below and cut their prey in half with their jaws. The tenggiri may overrun it’s quarry on the strike by 20ft, ending up flying like a missile into the air, two halfs of a rainbow runner dropping away on each side. This is a very spectacular method of feeding. The tenggiri will rise and fall with their prey. If the bait is deep, the tenggiri are still below them, so you need a method that goes deep, like jigging. If the rainbow runners are on the surface, the tenggiri will be high in the water column and trolling rapala’s works great.

I’m going to break with common tactics here and tell you that when I find such a situation, with bait shallow and tenggiri within 50ft of the surface, I troll DEAD SLOW with rapalas and with metal headed “hex” heads with coloured feathers. I troll at tickover speed. I can see the rapala metal bib flashing in the sunlight and I troll them up close right in the prop wash, perhaps 20 to 30ft behind the boat. The “hex” heads are run from the outriggers pretty close too and they just sort of slide along - no splash, no bubble trail, just the odd glint from the silver surface of the metal head. I believe that the boat appears to a tenggiri as the main school of bait fish, tightly packed. In the wake are a few stragglers. Sick fish that can’t keep up and they wallow and flash as they swim erratically trying to keep up with the main school (the boat). It’s this flash that triggers the strike and I don’t have to troll fast, because even though the tenggiri is tremendously fast, it’s attacking at high speed from below, not chasing down it’s prey in a flat out sprint. We often get strikes on the outrigger where the first thing you see is the tenggiri launching out of the water as it takes your bait. It flies through the air in a graceful arch, plunges back into the water and only then does the outrigger clip pop open and the reel start to scream. I have been observed by other boats to reverse faster on a big tenggiri hooked on light gear than I actually troll forwards!

If you watch the sounder during multiple passes of the structure, you’ll see the bait schools change shape. Spread out and with individual small fish visible in the school, no preditors. Tightly packed and visible as a single dense red cloud and you can be sure they are being hassled by something, even if you can’t see bigger fish on the sounder.

I’m going to break with traditional thinking again and tell you that if you can find a bait ball upcurrent of the structure and it’s being hammered - bait flying everywhere, tuna jumping, tenggiri flying every which way, maybe a shark or two, or even a Marlin slashing through the whole lot eating anything and everything, expect to find snapper, grouper and other traditionally bottom hugging species underneath the action, up high in the water column, mopping up the scraps. You can get snapper to come right up to the surface in some circumstances. You might even get the odd one on a rapala, but the killing method is - soft plastic baits on jig heads dropped down the water column on free spool!

Contrast the feeding methods of tenggiri with that of a grouper. Big mouth. Grasping rearward facing fang teeth. Large fins and a barrel shaped body. Clearly not a pelagic speedster. Also he’s eating bait he can swallow whole. Depending upon how big the grouper you expect, they generally won’t be tackling 2kg rainbow runners and the rainbow runners don’t often go that close up to the structure. A grouper has all the features of an ambush preditor. Even his colouration is designed to blend in with the rocks he hides in. Don’t expect him to come to you. You have to go to him and employ methods suitable for grouper. Where I anchor the boat behind Peucang Island for the night is a shallow reef edge. The top of the reef is barely submerged at low tide. At high tide it’s maybe 4 ft deep. At the edge, it drops off into 20ft of water. If the tide is dropping, you can catch grouper after grouper after grouper on soft plastics on light jig heads, but you have to fish the plastics sink and draw. Let the weighted jig sink into any holes or edges on the reef. Once you get the feel of it and learn to live a bit dangerously on the retrieve, you can literally catch a fish a cast. Fish with poppers or swimming minnows that just swim along over their heads, no fish! Fish an unweighted plastic that doesn’t get down into the holes, no fish!

As I said, I don’t do a great deal of bottom fishing, but we do a ton of downrigger trolling, jigging and freelining live baits. Your observations have given me a nice lead in to the next topic of fish behaviour interpreted from the sounder and how best to catch the fish you see. A knowledge of the species you seek will also help you both interpret what you see on the sounder and catch your intended quarry.

As soon as I get my pictures back from Jakarta I’ll post some real shots here.

Part 5: Trolling structure

Part 6: Jigging structure

Picture 1 shows “normal” bait. Spread out and blips of individual small fish show up as blue or green blips in the big shoal. Picture 2 shows what happens when the tenggiri show up. Bait contracts into a dense school which will show up as a solid red blip. Bait is stacked vertically, like a chimney. Notice how the preditors have split off some loose groups of bait and will attack these in preference to the main school.

If this picture is within 50ft of the surface, you will catch fish on surface trolled lures. If It’s deeper than this, break out the downrigger or the jigging tackle.

I have often seen bait fish like picture 2 actually duck under the boat for cover and they will stay with the boat. I recall a memorable session one october day where the situation was obsolute mayhem with rainbow runners everywhere, mackerel tuna (kawa kawa) in the mix and the whole lot was being murdered by what can only have been hundreds of tenggiri with many sharks and even a Marlin in the frenzy. Any lure put into the water was instantly taken, we could never get more than one or two rods out before being bit again, fish were being hooked and eaten and we were getting just the heads back, tenggiri were flying everywhere, to the extent that it was actually dangerous. Sooner or later someone would get hit. I could actually hear fish hitting the underside of the boat. We put out a live kawa kawa about 10lbs on a double hook rig and hooked up a 65lb tenggiri. These are the sort of feeding frenzies that you remember for ever. Makes a good fish story too. We had 11 tenggiri, smallest about 40lb in the space of an hour and a half. We released 7 of them. We also caught rainbow runner and kawa kawa about 50% of which were ending up at the boat as just a head.

Hi Rob,

Very interesting write up and good illustration. Coming across bait balls like what you show is hard to come by here, but we do have kawa
kawa and tengirri in feeding frenzy near some FADs in the east and west coast, when we see that, we know we are going to have a good day. Catching those shinning herring, yellow tail scad, round scad with sabiki and drift out those live baits is a very effective method of hooking those kawa kawa and tengirri, sometime dorado , barracuda and cobia also come and have thier share of the feed.

One more method is to use fly spinning, any fly with 2/0 hook is good enough, I used to make my own fly for this purpose. Tie the fly to a 30lb clear mono about 4 ft long and connect this to the main line of 10 with a sliding weight. Use a 9 or 10 footer spinning rod
with fast action, cast into the feeding column and retrieve with high speed, hookup is fantastic, almost one cast one fish, and like you say 50% will be chomped in half and you only get the head (curry fish head is assured). Very often we can see those kawa kawa or small tengirri going after those small bait fish or they are trying to escape from becoming the lunch of a bigger predator.

quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
[img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/RBARRA/safebait.jpg[/img]

Picture 1 shows “normal” bait. Spread out and blips of individual small fish show up as blue or green blips in the big shoal. Picture 2 shows what happens when the tenggiri show up. Bait contracts into a dense school which will show up as a solid red blip. Bait is stacked vertically, like a chimney. Notice how the preditors have split off some loose groups of bait and will attack these in preference to the main school.

If this picture is within 50ft of the surface, you will catch fish on surface trolled lures. If It’s deeper than this, break out the downrigger or the jigging tackle.

I have often seen bait fish like picture 2 actually duck under the boat for cover and they will stay with the boat. I recall a memorable session one october day where the situation was obsolute mayhem with rainbow runners everywhere, mackerel tuna (kawa kawa) in the mix and the whole lot was being murdered by what can only have been hundreds of tenggiri with many sharks and even a Marlin in the frenzy. Any lure put into the water was instantly taken, we could never get more than one or two rods out before being bit again, fish were being hooked and eaten and we were getting just the heads back, tenggiri were flying everywhere, to the extent that it was actually dangerous. Sooner or later someone would get hit. I could actually hear fish hitting the underside of the boat. We put out a live kawa kawa about 10lbs on a double hook rig and hooked up a 65lb tenggiri. These are the sort of feeding frenzies that you remember for ever. Makes a good fish story too. We had 11 tenggiri, smallest about 40lb in the space of an hour and a half. We released 7 of them. We also caught rainbow runner and kawa kawa about 50% of which were ending up at the boat as just a head.


Fish tight…fish right!!! Thomas

Yes ‘bait’ balls or ‘meat’ balls as we called them here, are truly amazing and one you can never forget easily. On a number of occasions we scooped them with the net and used them to entice YFT. The activity around a meatball was incredible and fascinating, all going at 100 miles and hour. Skipjack tuna for example, could only be seen as purple fluorescent streaks in the water when there was a feeding frenzy. Just imagine the speed they were travelling at.

Chucking half a dozen anchovies on 12/0 hook on a 24-kg gear with harness followed by a handful of anchovies every minute or so in the water and a YFT hook-up thereafter was one of the most memorable and backbreaking memories to treasure. Hmm… I think I’ll go fishing.. Bye..

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006

Bluenose, you’re in New Zealand? Whereabouts? Beautiful country! Where do you normally fish?

quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
Bluenose, you're in New Zealand? Whereabouts? Beautiful country! Where do you normally fish?
Hi Marlin, Yes I am in Auckland, NZ, thank you. Weekends, I normally fish around Waiheke Island, with the family. Every couple of months or so we venture further, to Great Barrier Island, Bay of Plenty (White Island) or the West coast.

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006

Great place! I visited both North and South Island a few years back and enjoyed it very much. You have good fishing. Do you ever get up to the Bay of Islands to fish for Striped Marlin?

I’ll be headed to Jakarta mid week and weather permitting should get a couple of days fishing in. I’ll be able to bring back some photo’s and articles for the forum.

I think so too. Fishing is fabulous, from trout to black marlin. They are seasonal though, but that’s ok you need some rest [:D] anyway and for fish stock to recover.

I seldom go to Bay of Islands as it caters more for the ‘tourists’. Good fishing there no doubt but Whakatahe(Bay of Plenty) is far better and also the Three Kings (off northern tip of North Island). They are catching a lot of stripies on the West Coast (off Manukau Harbour etc) at the moment and huge bluefin tunas (world record claim, 260+ kg) off Greymouth (South Island).

Good luck with your fishing.

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006

quote:
Originally posted by bluenose
I think so too. Fishing is fabulous, from trout to black marlin. They are seasonal though, but that's ok you need some rest [:D] anyway and for fish stock to recover.

I seldom go to Bay of Islands as it caters more for the ‘tourists’. Good fishing there no doubt but Whakatahe(Bay of Plenty) is far better and also the Three Kings (off northern tip of North Island). They are catching a lot of stripies on the West Coast (off Manukau Harbour etc) at the moment and huge bluefin tunas (world record claim, 260+ kg) off Greymouth (South Island).

Good luck with your fishing.

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006


hi, blue nose . whats happenning? anything fantastic? i just went back 2 mly bcause my father passed away.i want 2 do a lot of things but dont have much time.wanted 2 go 2 johor 2 visit thomas tacky shop n do some fishing but didn't bring the gear along.but had lots of durian ,yummy.[:D]later

Odyssey…our condolences on the demise of you father.
Death is part of life and keep on living,we must.

“Team Longkang Gang Member”

quote:
hi, blue nose . whats happenning? anything fantastic? i just went back 2 mly bcause my father passed away.i want 2 do a lot of things but dont have much time.wanted 2 go 2 johor 2 visit thomas tacky shop n do some fishing but didn't bring the gear along.but had lots of durian ,yummy.[:D]later
Hi Odyssey, Deepest condolence to you and family. Well, durian is the next best thing if you can't fish.[:D]. Gamefishing is peaking at the moment so I am heading that way soon.

bluenose - Just Fish U4 - 2006

My condolence to you on your recent bereavement, you had to do your duty, you still have time in the near future to visit me, hope to see you on fine day.

Fish tight…fish right!!! Thomas

quote:
Originally posted by thomas lee
My condolence to you on your recent bereavement, you had to do your duty, you still have time in the near future to visit me, hope to see you on fine day.

Fish tight…fish right!!! Thomas


good 2 hear frm u guys. sure will, next time i go back want 2 try spratly 4 sure.[:p]later

Hi Odyssey,

Make sure you arrange for a long holiday here, not only going to Spratlys, but also can try Ujong Kulon with Marlin, we are expecting to see some exciting pictures after he comes back from
Jakarta. As a matter of fact, Ujong Kulon is going to be my next venue, of course with the help of Marlin if he doesn’t mind.

Fish tight…fish right!!! Thomas