Perhaps .. increase the fishing license fee…this would be a form of control… say RM50per head for a min 5 day fishing license.
This is just simple maths… the locals need money and the anglers need fish and the enforcement officers need to get paid…
But I think anglers do not contribute much to the locals as they only contribute to the operators and the money goes into the community via that, as anglers would be out in the lake most of the trip and would be eating and drinking there.
I think fishing licenses in Malaysia if there is any is just way too low… there should be a higher fee to fish and hence this money can be channeled to the enforcers and also conservation efforts…
No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha
Let’s take a look at what I contributed to the local economy on my trip. These are ancilliary expenses or “support” expenses not directly related to my fishing (entry fees and boat hire) cost. It also doesn’t include the specific extra fishing gear and lures I stocked up on in KL before the trip.
Toll fees to Kuantan (not sure where these go and who gets them, but the toll booths are manned by x local employees)
Meal at the highway rest stop area (employs X locals)
Petrol at a service station (employs X locals)
Stayed overnight in hotel in Kertih (employs X locals)
Breakfast in Kampung middle of no-where (employs X locals)
Toll fees to Kuala Lumpur (toll booths are manned by x local employees)
Meal at the highway rest stop area (employs X locals)
Petrol at a service station (employs X locals)
Pity no-one has opened a tackle store close to the entry point. I’d have spent some more money there as well.
Then there are the support industries that service the boat that I fished on. Outboard engine technicians, carpenters who build the superstructure of the boat I fished on, electricians who wired the electrical system and TV/Karaoke, deisel mechanics who service the engine of the boat I fished on, Explorer Marine who built the fishing dorys we used from the houseboat, Etamax in Penang who built the Bujuk I carted up there to fish from myself, etc etc…
Then there are the support industries that deliver fuel, food and supplies to the petrol station, service areas and hotel I used…
Someone had a puncture and paid a local guy at the bengkel to fix it…
When you actually stop to consider what services anglers use and how much of the local economy they help to support, it’s actually a tremendously valuable and needed contribution to the economy of many of these areas.
That’s why fish are worth more to the locals alive than dead. They are far too valuable to be caught only once. But the locals don’t realise it. Until it’s gone. And they loose their jobs.
quote:Originally posted by Marlin Let's take a look at what I contributed to the local economy on my trip. These are ancilliary expenses or "support" expenses not directly related to my fishing (entry fees and boat hire) cost. It also doesn't include the specific extra fishing gear and lures I stocked up on in KL before the trip.
Toll fees to Kuantan (not sure where these go and who gets them, but the toll booths are manned by x local employees)
Meal at the highway rest stop area (employs X locals)
Petrol at a service station (employs X locals)
Stayed overnight in hotel in Kertih (employs X locals)
Breakfast in Kampung middle of no-where (employs X locals)
Toll fees to Kuala Lumpur (toll booths are manned by x local employees)
Meal at the highway rest stop area (employs X locals)
Petrol at a service station (employs X locals)
Pity no-one has opened a tackle store close to the entry point. I’d have spent some more money there as well.
Then there are the support industries that service the boat that I fished on. Outboard engine technicians, carpenters who build the superstructure of the boat I fished on, electricians who wired the electrical system and TV/Karaoke, deisel mechanics who service the engine of the boat I fished on, Explorer Marine who built the fishing dorys we used from the houseboat, Etamax in Penang who built the Bujuk I carted up there to fish from myself, etc etc…
Then there are the support industries that deliver fuel, food and supplies to the petrol station, service areas and hotel I used…
Someone had a puncture and paid a local guy at the bengkel to fix it…
When you actually stop to consider what services anglers use and how much of the local economy they help to support, it’s actually a tremendously valuable and needed contribution to the economy of many of these areas.
That’s why fish are worth more to the locals alive than dead. They are far too valuable to be caught only once. But the locals don’t realise it. Until it’s gone. And they loose their jobs.
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Ok… I think your perception of local and mine might be different.. when I say local I mean the people in Kenyir, the kampung boys and the people who work and have business around there… local councils and so on and so forth that are looking at managing and developing Kenyir would look at the industires closest…
If you stayed in the town.. ok that was a contribution…
If you had eaten lunch or breakfast by the lake in a restaurant in that area fair enough…but what the council people are looking at is to re energize and boost the “local/kenyir” peoples economy… which translates to more business and more work… which would mena that fishing would be a part of it… apparently it is not the locals that are poaching but otsiders who come in and poach… now if the locals realise that the fish is what is bringing in the $$$$$ then they would feel that there is a need to protect it… but right now.. there is not enough jobs or business to be sustainable.. and hence they dont really give a SH&*^t…
I would consider imposing a license fee for all travellers into Kenyir… a fishing license fee. That would help create and get the ball rolling with regards to the funding for enforcement and also for the restocking of the lake…
Now for restocking… there would be jobs available for the locals.
Emforcement - thats also more jobs for the locals… perhaps a bonus for the enforcement officers who apprehend poachers and anglers who do not adhere to rules (In Canada, if you are caught poaching they take away your house… hehehehe)that would be one mighty fine wouldnt it. I believe in hefty penalties.. that way… the money from these fines can be injected back to the rehabilitation and the management of the lake… I do believe that is quite a good cycle for a lake/Dam like kenyir… its just that there is a heavy requirement for a lot of funding as there is a need for a lot of enforcement and also a lot of boats and equipment.
No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha
You can narrow down the area of influence for the dollars anglers spend to the immediate area around Kenyir, but it’s still a proportion of local industry and jobs that derive some benefit from angling and related activity. Of course, the more direct the better in terms of visibility if we wish to use the creation of value and jobs to promote sustainability.
I often feel at many of these places the locals are missing a real opportunity to provide better services to anglers, especially travelling anglers who spend more money. Services are generally in the cheap and cheerful category or more often than not, just cheap without the cheerful! I leave places like Taman Negara, Teminggor, Rompin and Kenyir thinking how things might be…
quote:Originally posted by Marlin You can narrow down the area of influence for the dollars anglers spend to the immediate area around Kenyir, but it's still a proportion of local industry and jobs that derive some benefit from angling and related activity. Of course, the more direct the better in terms of visibility if we wish to use the creation of value and jobs to promote sustainability.
I often feel at many of these places the locals are missing a real opportunity to provide better services to anglers, especially travelling anglers who spend more money. Services are generally in the cheap and cheerful category or more often than not, just cheap without the cheerful! I leave places like Taman Negara, Teminggor, Rompin and Kenyir thinking how things might be…
Marlin's TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME campaign
I do agree with you as the angling in these places are unregulated and are not well managed, even then the locals loose out as they do not have the right exposure and also the training.
Angling is big business if it is run properly, if the fisheries are managed well… it will be even better.. if u had noticed in Kenyir.. most of the fishes are not at the back side of the lake.. imagine is the front side of the lake can be populated and managed.. anglers need not travel so far and good quality fishing is just a few min away… good accomodation, clean restaurants are just in front of them… now that would be an idea that would benefit quite a fair bit of them locals.. rather than now having to travel into the innerparts just to fish
No pain no gain, dont try dont know… muahahahahaha
Had a bit of discussion on this matter with a Fisheries Putrajaya unit last Friday; which handle on this legaslation etc. Not an easy task but can be made possible.
Kenyir case : Freshwater fisheries is under state fisheries, meaning state director can implement something there FAST, if he thinks so. The enforcing party is different. Marine police gurads the kenyir areas (except Taman Negara areas). PERHILITAN can implement ‘something’ inside their jurisdication areas, but still both marine police and Perhilitan and fisheries department doesn’t have the ‘budgets’ for the enforcement.
Fisheries Department have a small office in KUala Berang; visited there once. Long way to go but ‘something’ have to come out from these discussion to be voice out for the rest of anglers out there.
Here’s where the anglers “entry fees” or a rod and line permit could help with budget issues; provided that anglers fees are used for this purpose.
There are a limited number of access points for boat house trips, although a multitude of entry points for anyone who makes the effort to go further afield. Policing anglers is therefore easy if there are spot checks at the entry and drop-off points, but this is a bit selective and harsh on anglers if poaching goes unchecked.
Patrols and on the water checks are also necessary to effectively enforce bag limits and reduce the amount of poaching.
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I heard from my friend who is a member on FZ that the bloke got hammered hard by FZ seniors…
Truly saddened by the sight!
Cheers`
Early to bed, early to rise, fish all day, then post online </font id=“blue”></font id=“size1”>
[In support of Marlin’s TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME Campaign]</font id=“size1”></font id=“green”>
quote:Originally posted by Grey From a new thread in FZ by a new FZ forumer.
I heard from my friend who is a member on FZ that the bloke got hammered hard by FZ seniors…
Truly saddened by the sight!
Cheers`
Early to bed, early to rise, fish all day, then post online </font id=“blue”></font id=“size1”>
[In support of Marlin’s TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME Campaign]</font id=“size1”></font id=“green”>
Hi all,talking about the license,are you noticed that we already paying for what we did?[?]In general,i can say that all those travelling cost already beaten us down.Why? All the spot near us has lost it’s population. That why we pay Ah Tong(kakilai) for the fees.Sadly, because the nearby river is used to give the same amount of fish strike almost 10 or 20 years ago.If we ask the govmnt to enforce the law,then it will be too late.(They take a few month just to chop a single form!!!)Now,I think we better educate ourself and people around us. Just tell them,is it necessary to bring home all the fish?Just my opinion only.[?]
Yes Bro Sild, i agree with you that we need the minimum size ruling, minimum fish per person per week and closed season for different species for spawning and easing off fishing pressure.The penalties also should be a deterent.
THE WHOLE PROBLEM IS ENFORCEMENT! With the tidak apa attitude of those who are supposed to enforce and such a large area to monitor, i doubt it will work in Malaysia bro. Look at the Jermal issue in Pahang which you are trying your best to highlight to the relevant authorities to act, i mean they are all over the rivers, only blind men cant see them, and yet it needs to be highlighted, make a big issue, then only some politicians will turun padang tunjuk muka and say “we will discuss this in a mesyuarat blah..blah..blah”.
This ruling will only work when the society in general is matured enough to understand that eventually our resources will run out if not managed properly. Nature needs time to heal, even fish needs time for a full life cycle from mating to spawning to growing up as fry and to the size limit. The attitude of our locals (not all but most) is that whack everything you can bring back so the trip is berbaloi! Unless this bunch of people understand and are self regulated on sizes and bag limit, i am afraid the ruling will take a long time to become effective.
However, having said that it is still a good idea to start it. You can refer to the Aussie model or US model. I have bought a book in Florida on various species, bag limits and minimum size, closed season etc. I am not sure how to load into this forum, not sure they have in pdf format. I will try later.
Can you ls emailed that to me at zam@dhi.com.my. If it’s huge than i’ll get the ftp for you. I have one sample from Canada with me given by a friend; we do have connection with the fisheries department here(enforcement-law) people; maybe we can try to push them a bit harder.
No problemo Sild, but first i have to look for it, i just moved house, so its got to be in one of those boxes in my store. If you cant wait you can go to one of those florida fishing websites, they usually have guidelines on what type of fish to catch, their descriptions, distributions, spawning and closed seasons, and fishing regulations.
Sometimes these folks wont move their butts with a bit of pressure, why dont you paint the worst case scenario about life without fish in the future, when they have to pay tens of ringgit just to get some decent fish on the tables. I went to the fish market the other day and i was surprised that Kurau now cost RM48/kg compared to RM30+/kg last year! Tenggiri now cost RM28/kg compared to RM20/kg a year back. At pasar malam 5 Kembung cost me RM12, not even a kilo!
That is so expensive mate!!! Am working on fish price etc sometime for reporting purposes; those kanagurta-kembong might have luminous fish oil in them ya.
hehe There are 2 main kembong here. Rastraligger brachysoma and Rastraliger kanagurta (mind the spelling)- Both are different in shape and price. Termenong and borek in northern language.
I found the book that have a fishing regulation for bag limits. It is quite basic, on salwater fish and freshwater fish. Basically, there is no bag limits on saltwater fish except the endangered ones whish are listed in a table form. The table list down the endangered fishes with minimum size limits varies from 10inches to 24inches, and maximum number of fish per person per trip. The regulation also stated the closed season for certain endangered species( eg.Snook) where all fish can be caught but must be released. These regulations are subject to change from Fisheries Department. Liscence are required for rod and reel either per year or for a few months. Fishing using cane poles are not subjected to liscence.
For freshwater fishing, it depends on the states and types of endangered fish. The bag limits per person are higher as most freshwater fishes in the US are Bluegills(Tilapia family/Sunfish), Crappies, Bass, Walleye, Pikes,trouts are not in trouble yet like our Kelah. There are no closed season for these fish that i know of.
Fine for breaches of rules varies from state to state, US500 to 1000. But i am not sure how they enforce the rules. From my experience, when i wanted to fish in Biscayne Bay Park, we have to go through a check point where a Park Ranger will check how many rods you have in the car, then he will ask us to pay a certain amount. On the way out after fishing he would check what we caught.
That was on an island connected by roads, so it can be controlled. In the Malaysian jungle, how on earth the Perhilitan going to control when the jungles are so porous and they are understaffed?
Charging fees based on number of rods is a good start which the Perhilitan already doing in some parks. But how are they going to enforce on bag limits if certain fish are caught are undersize or more than the limit deep in the jungle? By the time the culprits check out of the park, all the fish have been eaten at the camp fire. It is challenging, it boils down to the fisho’s ethics.
Good luck in your dealings with the authorities on bag limits.
much as I agree to bag limits and all that, I feel there is a need to balance the economic view point. it is very well to speak of the Aussie model or the US model but their was only acheived when there were little or no pressure on the economic front namely the locals do not depend on their catch for survival. infact in many parts of the US, locals are paid not to catch during certain close periods. can this be seen to be happening in Malaysia in the near future?.
laws and enforcements is never the answer when there is a monetary factor, may it be in Malaysia or any part of the globe. our only hope is with education leading a change for the better.
quote:Originally posted by ekwong much as I agree to bag limits and all that, I feel there is a need to balance the economic view point. it is very well to speak of the Aussie model or the US model but their was only acheived when there were little or no pressure on the economic front namely the locals do not depend on their catch for survival. infact in many parts of the US, locals are paid not to catch during certain close periods. can this be seen to be happening in Malaysia in the near future?.
laws and enforcements is never the answer when there is a monetary factor, may it be in Malaysia or any part of the globe. our only hope is with education leading a change for the better.
EK,
Looking back the past 20 years, I believe the current angling fratenity has improved in its responsibility. Releasing fishes was almost unheard of then. Education by example is a nice way to lead.
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