Oh darn… money, money, money… Anyone know of tilapias breeding even in 2 ft aquariums??? Money blinds the greedy. Ignorant fools follow suit. PR Officer of Fisheries also playing politics. Follow the leader I guess…
Fish & Fish yet catch & release.
Guys,
To be honest, I wouldnt consider all alien species as destructive as they claimed to be. Country like Australia has introduced trouts in their local water and has contributed towards both commercial value as well as angling aspect. Though against the idea of releasing alien species in our natural lakes and rivers, personally dont think it is right to call for culling of all alien species ie tilapia, rohu and even lampam jawa etc in all the old mining lakes and ponds. In the first place these fishes have been introduced decades ago and so far blending well with our local species. Also, many pay ponds are breading them as baitfishes to feed the tomans and haruans as well as providing fun for many anglers. Think we should leave tilapia issue out for the time being. Should put ourselves in their shoes and look at the other angle. Telling them to stop breeding tilapia because it is ‘harmful’ to the environment is like telling us angler to hang our rod and stop fishing all together. This is multi million dollar business and the fisheries department in Putrajaya has written in officially to dispute the case. Unless someone has done scientific research and with concrete evidence to rebut the official, else we will be seen as bunch of anglers trying to make hoohaa again for no apparent reason.
We should put our effort to fight against the most destructive species ie PEACOCK BASS, ILLEGAL NETTERS, BOMBERS, TRAWLERS etc. Hope we didnt loss focus and press at the wrong button. End of the day our own credential is at stake and in future any complaints will be taken lightly.
PC,
I think you have mised the point here. We never disputed the fact that the Tilapia is economically and nutritional viable. Neither have we tried to outlaw the aquaculture of the species.
What we are asking for is a more responsible method of aquaculture that would not bring a change in the eco-system in case the net cages are ruptured and the Tilapia escapes and breeds in the wild.
Experience tells us that the Tilapia is a hardy fish and can be cultured in man made ponds. The only reason I see it been done in natural lakes is because of the Ringgit factor. Now, how can you tell me that you are practising responsible aquaculture when you have already taken a “shortcut” in the initial stages?
RainbowRunner
Tightlines and screaming reels
RR,
I do agree with your point of responsible method of aquaculture that would not bring a change in the eco-system. What I query is the call for culling of all alien species incl. tilapia, rohu and even lampam jawa etc in the old mining lakes and ponds. And also the claim that tilapia attacks and devour fish fries of the local species; decimating their population? Is it true? So far never caught them with lures or live bait. Never seen them attacking baitfishes. Appreciate your enlightenment.
quote:And also the claim that tilapia attacks and devour fish fries of the local species; decimating their population? Is it true? So far never caught them with lures or live bait. Never seen them attacking baitfishes. Appreciate your enlightenment.
quote:
Pc,
Dont lah say enlightenment! Just an exchange of ideas only.
Yes, i have taken Tilapias on lures; mainly the LC Micro Spinnerbait and the Duel Pallete Spoon. Spinflies and flies are effective as well.
It’s just not me but a few other individuals as well.
RainbowRunner
Tightlines and screaming reels
Dr K,
Really appreciate your input on this matter. You mentioned that you applied for fries of the GIFT tilapia. About 2 years ago, a MFN forummer brought up the destructive nature of these “genetically enhanced” species and about how they were so violent that during the research stages, they were kept in individual tanks with their lower lips removed. Any comments on this?
Vincent,
Any chance of pulling the GIFT tilapia thread out from storage? Think it is kinda appropriate to resurrect it for further discussion since Dr K is in the forum.
RainbowRunner
Tightlines and screaming reels
Poppercaster bro,
Tilapias can be caught on lures & I have caught them before. They do eat fish fries & multiply fast. We appreciate the tilapia fish as a good source of protein as well as income to fish farms who farm them & sell them to restaurants. However breeding them in a National water basin & forest reserve will disrupt the balance of the eco system there. Just imagine losing kelah fries which will at the end wipe kelah out entirely in that water basin. I believe that we would rather see fish farmers (breeders) breed the fishes (tilapias) in lakes / ponds where the fishes are not able to make their way into our national water basins.
Anyway, I don’t remember anyone wanting to cull tilapias. The targets have been pbs, jaguar cicilids, etc. I’ve worked with some naturalist & conservationist whilst in Langkawi. We have 3 main types of monkeys in the resort. The spectacled eyed monkey aka duskey leaf monkey, long tail macaque, & the slow loris.
All three monkeys are important to us & the eco system there. However culling of the long tail macaque had to be done as they out populate the other monkeys. Duskey leaf monkeys eat leaves & fruits. The long tail macaques are carnivours. Duskey leave monkeys live in small families. Long tail macaques leave in large families (one alpha male has an average of 15 wives… wanna be a monkey??? hehe) & they have new born babies on an average of 3 months once (say a mother gives birth to only 1 baby. 15 babies every 3 months).
We had to cull the alpha males to control their population. The rule of thumbs is when one species out populate another specie and it gets out of hand, the smaller population specie will oneday be wiped out. This is evident as we have seen the long tail macaques kill the duskey leaf monkeys & eat their babies. Have also seen them eat the colugos aka flying lemour (known to some as flying monkeys or squirrels) young. They put their hand in a nest (home to the colugo), pull out the young, reap of the head & eat them. Since culling the long tail macaques, the population of the duskey leaf monkey have started to grow.
I know that we’re talking about alien fishes & monkeys have nothing much to do with fishes but what I hope to get understood is that culling is needed to help control population of certain species so that the eco system is not destroyed. It is utterly impossible to totally wipe out the population of pbs as they are hardy & will breed fast but by culling them (pbs) we will be able to put the population under control allowing time for our local species to grow, breed, & populated (hopefully). This thus is why culling is done.
All said & typed, I DO NOT agree with tilapia farming at kenyir & oppose it 100%. If the farming plans do go on (especially on such big scales) & the tilapia population gets out of hand, we will then be talking about culling tilapias.
Fish & Fish yet catch & release.
Very interesting topic indeed, in my opinion culturing of tilapia should be encouraged in a big scale to supplement the need of protien. The sea is getting depleted of fishes, no thanks to those trawlers, marines fishes are getting expensive each season, hence the tilapias will come in handy. Aquapreneurs should also be aware the they should culture the tilapias in ponds and not to let it spread to natural lakes, whether it could be a danger or not is yet to be determined scientifically, but prevention is better than cure. The possibility of tilapias invading our natural water ways need positive studies with proven evidence. One occurance about 50 years ago, there were several ponds of cultured tilapias in Kranji area (SINGAPORE) got flooded and all the tilapias were washed into the STRAITS OF JOHOR, the question of adapttability is answered with millions of saltwater tilapias thriving until the present day which provide income to the fishermen and also protien to the people. Many old timers say that THIS IS A GOD SENT ECOLOGY. Surprisingly all other marine species are also thriving very well, those tamban, selar, trevally, milkfish, tarpon, daun baru, kerapu, ebek, alu alu, siakap, mangrove jack, pari, gelama, gerut gerut, various species of shrimps, duri, saiseng, gemang, etc, etc… are all there, even once in a while those tengirri come in for a feed on the tamban at those kelongs and rakit kupang. Those saltwater tilapia range from half to 2kg which is a common sight at various wet market and sometime could also see the marked appearance of those striped colourful cichlids among them. I also have fished widely in Thailand in various water catchment areas for the pla yeesook (ROHU), pla yeesook thai (TEMOLEH), toman, sebarau, baung and lampam, I sometime had hookup of big tilapias from 3 to 5 kg. At first I thought it was a different specie, but after talking to the local residents, they told me that those were really tilapias bred by the aquapreneurs who used cages and the babies spread through out the lake. Now this already happened in THAILAND and according to the breeders there, the tilapias are territorial which means they build thier nest by making holes at the bottom of the shallower areas of the lake and guard thier young there, they do not hunt in pack like other predators, now who is right and who is wrong, we need experts to study thoroughly to get the end results, so that we don’t have do culling, by then it is time and money wasted.
Fish tight…fish right!!! 
Thomas 
www.jdartac.com
Dr K,
Guess you are the best person to advise/educate us on this issue since you have done many years of research.
You mentioned that many research work on the environmental impacts and threats of tilapia have been carried out elsewhere in the tropical and sub-tropical countries and the scientists are aware of the threats. Being aware of these threats if any, whether COP includes the clause “must take appropriate measures so that none of the alien species escape to the natural water bodies” or not, to me only makes it looked good on paper. In practical this clause is useless in our local context as many of us aware how the department running their daily chores, how the ministers getting away without a single responsible etc. Guess it is not a good idea to even bring in the GIFT tilapia to this country all together.
RR,
Thks for the tips. Would try LC Micro Spinnerbait and the Duel Pallete Spoon may be someday. Would be fun to catch them on fly.
Phimusle bro,
I do agree with the point that breeding alien species ie tilapias in the major fresh water basin like Kenyir which flows into main rivers in the country is a big NO NO. They should reconsider breeding indigenous species instead. I also agree with fellow forumers to cull these elusive species called PEACOCK BASS as they are the most dominant fishes in many lombongs and lakes since its introduction barely less than 10 yrs (if not mistaken) and they are wiping out the local species fast. Even tomans are not spared.
The point is there are callings to cull all alien species (in other threads) incl. tilapia, rohu, lampan jawa in the lombongs etc. As many aware, most lakes/ponds in this country are already over-pressured. Calls for culling of some of the less harmful species are making the situation worst. Me, being a layman just trying to figure out the rational behind all these.
Well Poppercaster bro, I guess many don’t really know the meaning of culling. I was having a chat with another angler who has also gone into culling mode. To him culling means to wipe out these alien fishes from our waters. Well, that’s not culling but should be called “species cleansing.” Many have got the idea of culling wrong. Culling is needed for alien fishes that have over-populated our waters to help keep the ecology balanced.
Fish & Fish yet catch & release.
The archive for GIFT Tilapia is not in MFN anymore as it has been removed. But Google keeps a copy of it. If any of you wants to search for the GIFT Tilapia on the Google archive, click on this link:
And then at the Result row - click on “Cached”
Vincent
* Team Spinboyz - U1 2004 * Team MalPro - U2 2004 * Team Lucky Craft Happy Hookers - U3 2005 * Marshall - U4 2006 *</font id=“size1”>
“We (MFN forumers) are a few but together we are many. We are many among the millions of anglers yet to have their voices heard” - Majulah sukan memancing untuk negara
Hey thx vincent… never knew i have to click on the cached link… no wonder everytime i find some old postings on google, but cannot seem to find the thread… awesome!!
- Team BKT - U4 2006 *
“Fish until U drop”
If I am a illegal netter, this is what I will do
I will pay big bucks to the so-called scientist to write the article and tell people how the alien species damage the natural water. so that all anglers will shout and unified to against the alien species…tournament for PB, Tilapia etc.
why? because the police do nothing in busting illegal fisherman like me. the only concern to me is sporting anglers. now I can distract them, and nobody will bother my “opeartion”
Impossible? or possible?
Very interesting arguments over the pros and cons. Personally I do not understand the fuss over some ‘small fish’ issues and I would like to share some personal views and experiences that may throw the subject into another dimension.
Way back in 1999, I happened to stumble upon a fish farm ( now popularly known as Tow Foo ). In those days, these tofu fed tilapias were in abundance and practically over populated at the main pond over there. At that time, I was negative towards considering the Tilapia as a table fare but after tasting this fish, my perception changed considerably. It is indeed a great and cheap table fish.
The main pond was well stocked with several varieties of fish such as Toman, Haruan, Baung, Grass Carp, Pacu, Patin, Lampam, Soon Hock, indigenous Keli and of course millions of Tilapia. The original intent of stocking tilapia and lampam was to provide fodder to the predators and the concept proved its worth until disaster struck.
The disaster was two fold. First, we opened it up to sport fishing and allowed anglers to take home 2 kilos of Tilapia, Lampam , Keli or Pacu. Then we introduced about 500 Tapah.
Since then we noticed that Tilapia and Lampam were fast declining in stock. Anglers were almost ‘culling’ the tilapia and lampam daily and today, we have an accute shortage of Tilapia and Lampam. The indigenous keli has not been seen at all for the last 4 years but the Pacu are still aplenty because nobody likes the taste.
It subtly proves that fishing pressure can reduce fish stock especially if there is demand for consumption. The Tapah is also to blame for the declining fodder stock.
With decreased fodder, the Tomans and Tapah must have wiped out the indigenous Keli.
We have replenished the main pond several times, but we are still losing out to the main predators and that is, human demand. Even though the Tilipia and Lampam are prolific breeders, it is impossible to satisfy the human demand which far exceeds breeding and maturity time for even the so called pesky tilapia.
I can tell a lot more about the Tilapia as I also have a 30 footer concrete tank at home and have been observing its habitat with other species. The moment it breeds, sebaraus, soon hock, baung, carps, kelah and other species rush at lightning speed to swallow the fries. The Tilipia now are solidarity and at least two of them are about two kilos each in weight. All the various species live harmoniously together and only big fish survive in that small mass of water.
In my personal view, the Tilipia is not as destructive as generally perceived. For as long as there is demand for the table, its balance will be checked.
As I have said, this is my personal view and I hope someone will spread some negative news about eating Tilapia so that our stock can get back to pre-opening days!
“Fishing Pressure Reduces The Pleasure”
quote:
As I have said, this is my personal view and I hope someone will spread some negative news about eating Tilapia so that our stock can get back to pre-opening days!
Have Mr Wong Besok spread the word that the Tilapias are all fed on synthetic steroids. Thus,further human consumption will cause impotency and possible atrophy(shrinkage and wasting away) of the male sex organ!
That should do it![;)][;)][;)][;)][:D]
RainbowRunner
Tightlines and screaming reels
Mr D,
easier way would be to do away with the 2kg free fish from Towfoo and make each fish taken chargeable. Maybe at the same time, reduce the entry charge by a small amount, say RM3 to RM12.
Wong Besok will definately not agree as most fishos do not take their qouta and Wong Besok still pockets the RM15.
quote:
Originally posted by ekwong
Mr D,easier way would be to do away with the 2kg free fish from Towfoo and make each fish taken chargeable. Maybe at the same time, reduce the entry charge by a small amount, say RM3 to RM12.
Wong Besok will definately not agree as most fishos do not take their qouta and Wong Besok still pockets the RM15.
Even though TOW FOO POND is far from my home and I have
never been there before, but have been kept informed by
all the interesting reports of thrilling catches, I too
would like to see the tilapia can increase it’s breeding
as fast as it is taken away. To discourage people from
eating the tilapia is not advisable.
I do agree with Ekwong’s suggestion to do away with the
2kg free tilapia, to my guessing, most sporting anglers
will not take their quota, even if I were to go to TOW
Foo pond, all I want is a good day fishing and I will
not take the 2kg free fish home. CNR TO ALL SPECIES,
should be imposed, any angler who wants to bring fish
home will have to pay according to the various prices
put up by the management. The money collected will pay
for the replenishment as and when required. Just my
humble suggestion.
Fish tight…fish right!!! 
Thomas
www.jdartac.com
There are a lot of commercial Tilapia breeder in Bkt Beruntung/ Rasa area . Beside this african Catfish are breed too. I know one Breeder who had more than 60 foreign worker.. had 2 cooks to prepare their daily need. Just imagine how many of ton of fishes cultivated to keep his operation profitable.
Well i would like to share what i saw today, after finishing fishing i went to local chinese restaurany and ‘ta pau’ food. What i saw was unbelievable, you know local chinese restaurant have this aquarium that keep the red talapia and so on. this tank was fill with red talapia and 2 baung. One of the baung was dying with its belly up. Then one of the talapia came near and push the baung for awhile. Then suddenly its start to chew on the baung and can see the baung skin peeling out. It was very funny, coz i never see anything like this before. Anyway i told one of the worker there and he remove the baung to the fridge.
Come think of it, is red talapia so agrresive wan ? and another thing i saw at tmn desa paypond, there litte pink spot at side of the pond, guess what…1cm red talapia fry… and a lot of them even some up to 5 - 10cm which swim in right in to chicken cage where keep our catch. There really breed and in large number.
Maybe this is the alternate solution for Malaysian to reconsider how to disposal the tilapia.
check out this website http://www.taiwantilapia.org/