Kenyir trip -CnR disscussions

81

I could have sworn this was “English Discussion”…mmm

wusharox, your so called messy post is the strongest yet.

The only way to save the fishing future is make the fish worth more alive than dead. Prof Eddy Tan is doing a great job. If only all fish in all waters could be protected this way.

Fish need to be an asset, not a resource.

This needs to apply to, fishermen, boatmen and more importantly, the government. If more money can be made by catching the fish (and its surrounding support industries) than by the value of its flesh, then the future could be saved.

Unfortunately, something needs to be done soon as with dwindling stocks, fishing is getting poorer and thus the “value” of the sport not so high.

A well rounded, but punchy, case for banning nets/bombs etc needs to put forward to the govt, but in a way that they can see financial gain - money speaks far louder than “green” issues.

Sad, but true..!!

82

afro_d:
“I See. So now CnR is due to “Jealousy” then? Wow. Soon lets make it OSA then”

c’mon man, whos jealous? temenggor n kenyir is my playground ok, i used to go there once a month. jealous for wat right? probably my total sebarau caught alone amounts to 200+

kill the friggin’ netters

83
quote:
Originally posted by wusharox probably my total sebarau caught alone amounts to 200+

wwooowww… marvelous.. all CnR?? hope u did… [:D]

i wish i will reach that figure also, someday.. hopefully.. [;)]

<<<<<CastinG KaMu>>>>>
84

i took all! just kidding =P

lets focus on conservation, research and breeding, something more meaningful. hopefully someday, we can achieve a 1 cast, 1 sebarau standard. maybe then got overpopulation we have to take back all our catch. more fish is better than less fish! anytime

cheers!

kill the friggin’ netters

85

Wusharox, Afro_D was referring to Jassmen’s reply… Lol[:D]

86

Yeah Wusharox. I was reffering to Jassmen’s reply lah. [:p]


87
quote:
Originally posted by afro_d
Yeah Wusharox. I was reffering to Jassmen's reply lah. [:p]


[:o)][:o)][:o)]

88
quote:
Originally posted by wusharox
afro_d: "I See. So now CnR is due to "Jealousy" then? Wow. Soon lets make it OSA then"

c’mon man, whos jealous? temenggor n kenyir is my playground ok, i used to go there once a month. jealous for wat right? probably my total sebarau caught alone amounts to 200+</font id=“size2”>

kill the friggin’ netters

so?


http://longkanggang.blogspot.com/

H/P number: 017-6349013

89

originally posted by chewkbeng.
Zaman, not sure we hv met. If you are in the 80s era probably yes. You look ver familiar to me. 91st Engr corp? Taiping or Kluang? We definitely must hv crossed each other in the course of duty. My best time in life are those I spent with the forces. Not discounting whipping up 200 kelahs in 3 hours. Holy, how I wish to do that again! Stay in touch.

quote:

Originally posted by sniper

quote:

Originally posted by shahrilstephen
…Let me introduce myself; I am Capt (R) Shahril…

  • last serving unit/corp/regt

Capt Shahril & Maj Chew… pleasure to know you guys. If I may introduce myself; I am Capt (Rtd) Zaman… Last serving unit: 91st Construction Regiment (Royal Engineer Corp) in '92.

“Go fishing - Have fun - Recharge” Sniper

The above was taken off pg 11 of Back to basics in the freshwater forum page 7.
http://www.fishing.net.my/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8965&whichpage=11

200 kelahs in 3 hours as declared in the above statement. Wow! Betcha none were released. Now we know why there aren’t many kelahs left in those lubuks. Ever wondered why the Kelah Sanctuary was established? Or for that matter, the present ongoing KAGUM? Just so we can clobber each other on CnR in the MFN.
When the Back to Basics thread (pg 7 of Freshwater forum)was being debated back then, it did strike a chord in me at that time that some thing was amissed. Whilst it was about fishing techniques or tactics, it also exposed the recklessness of the “eat all you can buffet” mentality. You paid for it, so take as much as you can, don’t matter if you eat it all or not. Not so many kelahs left huh? Fishing not so fun and productive as in the heydays huh? I just pray our descendants won’t have to pay the price of the present indiscretions. I may not be in the service, but I count many to be my colleagues as well as an ex-serviceman who was my classmate, an avid angler and now one of my regular kakis. And yes by his own admission, those were foolish days. He is now more into taking only what is needed, sometimes limiting himself to only 1 fish, and releasing the rest. I salute him. I am also in awe of the company of fishos I tag along with. These are fine young men, a great tribute and advocates to the art of CnR. I do not know how or who influenced or instilled in them the attributes of CnR but I salute them too. As UBob would say - “take only what you need. don’t take home for your neighbours’ cats as well”
I did enjoy, as most of you would have, the writeups as well as the pics on the wild scenery in the thread. Standing in cool running water against the backdrop of virgin jungle. Pity if some developer comes along and doesn’t practice CnR.

90

sorry, caught in crossfire, stepped on landmine and lost a limb =P

btw, Air Ganda/Kenering still got landmines in the mountains(islands) area. my boatman’s brother or cousin lost his limb. please thread carefully

kill the friggin’ netters

91

Can’t blame this kinda thread having the highest readership, as
people naturally tends to be drawn to a brawl [:D]
This topic is at least it is better than having to deal
with God-like pseudo animal-lover.

At the risk of prologing this street-fight…

tor_kelah bro, you raise the question why nobody raise hell when
fishos harvested tens, hundreds of kilos and in fact tonnes of good
quality/eating fish from the sea.

Here is some reasons (or excuses to some) that I can think of:

  1. Off-shore fishing is relatively expensive venture for most,
    maybe one or twice a year for most. Thus by that low frequency,
    most anglers does not feel any harm in taking the fish.

A Tukun Perak trip cost upwards to RM5000 for 3D2N nowadays
for max 10 pax (not very comfortable, 8 pax would be max in my
book).

A Burma Bank trip cost RM28,000 for 5D4N for 10 pax. That’s
RM2,800 per person, not counting the equipment upgrades you need
to undergo.

This itself puts a dampening effect on the harvest, and one of
the reason why such long-range trips still produces amazing
amount of fish.

  1. Groupers and snappers are commercially farm raised now, so,
    not in immediate endangered situation.

  2. Sea is a relatively larger ecosystem and current rate of
    harvest by rod&line still sustainable (in my opinion).
    It always amaze me that year after year there are still
    swarms of silver grunter that turns up at a particular
    spot during specific season.

  3. Most of the spot frequented by anglers cannot be targeted
    commercially. Trawler nets won’t go near wrecks or structures.
    Fish cage operators will find their cages stolen or sabotaged
    at public spots. Long-liners just need to do their mass harvesting
    nearer in-shore (at much lower cost) as the smaller (better
    eating to the locals) specimen fetches higher prices.
    A live juvenile grouper of kilo size fetches upwards to RM48 per kg
    sold to seafood restaurant.

Fishing charter won’t or reluctant to bring you to near-shore spot,
as they make more money depending on the distant.

  1. Demersal species, after having suffered decompression from the
    depth are not good candidate for C&R. On the other hand, pelagics are.

Thus many promotes C&R of pelagics like GTs (which is very good
eating, by the way) and sailfish. Like on GT Chaser, it is almost
a 100% C&R trip for pelagics, and we respect Tekong Ah Ho for
leading that by example.
And the prolific GT bite we enjoyed at Pulau Jarak is testimony
to that effort.

[img=left]http://photobucket.com/albums/v214/petestop/giantgrouper.gif[/img=left]
 Hasta la vista, baby!</font id=“size2”>

Species: Epinephelus lanceolatus
Visit http://petestop.multiply.com</font id=“size1”></font id=“black”>

92

Pete, no street fight here (at least there shouldn’t be!). For the most part there has been some excellent discussion and some well reasoned arguments presented. These kinds of discussion are never a waste. The more exposure the issue gets, the more aware anglers become. They can then make up their own minds on sustainability from a better understanding of some of the issues involved. I know you yourself are a concerned angler, so my comments are further discussion with the group. They are not, repeat not, aimed at you personally, contrary to some interpretations of my posts!

I’ve often said this; whilst individual groups may only fish once or twice a year, the boat takes such groups every day. Each group justifies its take because it’s a drop in the ocean (so to speak), but the result is the boat is taking everything, every day. I think that whilst this argument of sustainability in the ocean does hold up to some degree of scrutiny and R+L fishermen have a smaller impact in a much bigger pond (the sea), we shouldn’t fall into the trap of thinking the ocean is an unlimited resource. The depleted state of our oceans bears witness to this and whilst R+L fishermen have far less impact than some of the devestating commercial practises, there are examples where anglers are depleting stocks. Pete, you published some interesting and alarming statistics on your catches of Fingermark a while back. I can’t remember the thread, but the data was very thought provoking. The areas inhabited by such fish are well known and are unsuitable for trawling. R+L fishermen, pretty much alone, are doing the damage here.

Demersal species that cannot be released need to be protected in different ways. The spots that are inhabited by these fish need to be rested and a variety of marks fished in rotation. With limited boats, it’s possible to do this, but with lots of charter boats, the same spots are being fished every day. Artificial reefs are another method of ensuring better sustainability on these resources (or assets as Fizzy says) and the more spots we have to fish, the less pressure there is on any particular spot.

Cost of trips again comes into looking at the reasons we spend our money on fishing. Sea fishing is indeed more expensive, but the fish can be bigger and more powerful in exchange. If we wish to fish tomorrow, the same argument holds. If we fish to recoup our costs, this can only happen at the expense of our own hobby in the future unless some thought is given to sustainability.

Some of the jack species are quite good to eat, but not all. Personal opinion of course. I have a great receipe for GT’s, which are tough and flavourless at best. Wrap the fish in silver baking foil together with a rock. Put in a little herbs and spice and a dash of milk. Seal the foil and bake in a hot oven for 30-35 minutes. Open the foil and remove the fish. Eat the rock [:)]. Joking aside, with enough flavouring to diguise the taste, almost any fish can be made to be at least palatable. The ones that are genuinely good to eat for their own natural flavour are much fewer.

93

Feel free to visit 1 of this site!

http://www.catchandreleasefound.org/home.html

http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factsheets/catch-release_fs.html

[FISHING IS NOT ONLY FISHING]

94

Marlin, i have to agree 100% with you on the recipe for fish.. people find find all sorts of ways to cook a fish just to eat it.. And will add medicinal value to it to even increase its demand. I think this is more of an asian thing (not to be racial here) but i noticed everything that moves either tastes good or has medicinal value, thus justifying it to be killed/eaten.


Earth is NOT inherited from our ancestors BUT borrowed from our children!

95

Evan bro,

Chances are you’ve already consumed GT. It is a popular fish
for the Nasi Kandar curry fish.

Have you guys tried steamed fresh GT ? Steaming supposely
very dependent on the original taste and texture of the fish.
There are some Teluk Bahang seafood restaurant here that serves
up excellent steamed GTs.

Minhan bro,

If you ever target golden snapper in Penang water, you will
know that you could be waiting the whole night, just
to wait for that right change in current, which may or
may not give you that half-hour frenzy.

During that frenzy, you easily gets a double-, triple- header.

Do you honestly believe that it is practical to land
a 4kg ang choh (without causing damage due to its flopping
on deck), wait couple minutes until it is subdued enough
to find the right spot to poke the hypodermic needle to vent
it before releasing it. Meanwhile, the feeding frenzy is over.

I once tried to dispatch a fish quickly as suggested
by some literatures on the “ike jima” method, which basically
pokes the brain to kill it and stops all the signals from
its nervous system. Which was reputedly a better way to preserve
quality of meat.

I know fish brains are small, but try as I may to find the right
spot, I can only say the result is ugly and stopped doing so.

So, really, you think can handle a hypodermic needle with a
trembling hand and a not so subdued fish and expect to hit the
right spot without damaging vital organs ? It may swim away,
but it will not survive.

Incidentally I read in a Aussie mag on a study of venting using
hypodermic needle, apparently majority of the fish still suffer
a form of illness (can’t recall the name) that limits its chance
of survival.

A more realistic approach is a seasonal closure/opening of certain zones,
which I think many would support, as succesfully being implemented
in Ko Adang, Thailand. But with that comes the need for enforcement,
which we don’t wanna debate into that topic again.

Of course, we can all stop fishing… [;)]

Marlin bro,

Yes, I did published some figures that shows the declining size
of golden snappers at many of the frequented spots here.
In a way, that is to be expected, as it takes about a decade
for golden snapper to attain above 6kg size. Although the first
couple years its growth rate is faster.

And there was almost a 6-month period in 2006 when we experience
extremely slow fishing, which prompted my posting.
However, lately, those same marks have bounced back quite remarkably.

I’m no fish-scientist, but logic tells me that if it is not
sustainable, we won’t witness such rebounding back of the fish
stock.

My data only spans 7~8 years period, so, still much to understand
and discount some cyclical increase/decline of the fish stock.

[img=left]http://photobucket.com/albums/v214/petestop/giantgrouper.gif[/img=left]
 Hasta la vista, baby!</font id=“size2”>

Species: Epinephelus lanceolatus
Visit http://petestop.multiply.com</font id=“size1”></font id=“black”>

96

pete: very interesting thing info about the hypodermic needle, infact all these while i’ve been just jabbing needles to release the air somewhere under the pectoral fins. i’ll squeeze em in a water bucket and release it when the fish gain some composure. seldom ppl take the initiative to do so for saltwater fishes. too troublesome n most beginners dont know how to also. we need more exposure =)

so i seldom go for the small ones to avoid the hassle, only the big ones hehehe . wats worst is when gutting n scaling those thousands of tiny fishes caught with apollo n bait.totally uncool man! yucks!

note:this is my experience only. i hate gutting fishes in a rocky boat! but i dont mind doing 1 or 2 big ones,very interesting to see wats in the tummy section

kill the friggin’ netters

97

Pete, yes it’s always difficult to ascertain accurately the true situation of fish stocks when you only have a rod and line to assess it with and all the inherent “other” variables that affect our catch rates. The noise and seasonal variation has to be filtered out to get a true picture, which is why we rely on other sources of data, not just our own.

In relation to the care you take of the golden snapper, yes the bite is short and you want to maximise your catch during those short periods, but if you do wish to release, it is possible with a bit of preparation. They do it with Sampson Fish off Perth, which are probably even more difficult to control than a golden snapper. They use a release weight system to tow the fish back into the depths and then a quick slacking of the line lets it free. This alleviates barotrauma to some degree. For some time there was clearly doubt about the effectiveness of this technique, but recent tag returns show that it is effective and fish do survive when released this way. I’m not saying you must or should do this or that its wrong to take your bag of golden snapper. Just that it should be possible if you so wish.

I think Minhan’s post was more generally on the merits of CnR rather than aimed specifically at golden snapper. In the case of sea fishes caught at depth, it’s going to be more difficult to CnR and other methods of alleviating pressure on the fisheries, such as artificial reefs and as you suggest closed seasons are both more practical and equally effective.

There have been some remarkeable rebounds in fisheries that have been in dire straits, but usually not without some sort of intervention from humans. So there’s always hope. The rebounding of the redfish and trout fishery along the southern states of the US is something which I have been able to experience first hand. It took a strong recreational lobby to get the nets out and there are now strict size and bag limits. You also need a license to fish, purchased at any of the drive in bottle stores, supermarkets or fishing shops anywhere in the state, but you know the money is being put to good use and the fishery is healthy. The benefits to both the community and the angler are so obvious that when I was there, I saw an “old timer” using a flounder gig to catch more than his limit of fish in an now illegal manner. He’d been doing this all his life and damn sure wasn’t going to let a little thing like the law stop him from continuing to do so. Unfortunately for him, his activities incurred the wrath of the license paying law abiding fishermen enjoying the rejuvenation of their fishery. Someone had let all his tyres down on both his car and his boat trailor. You should have heard the old boy curse. But not a fishermen there helped him out!

Giving up fishing is not an option bro!

98

Everyone has a diffrence point of view,so i think we shouldn`t have any further disccusion on the topic anymore.We just do wat is needed and let the rest enjoy with their own way of fishing [:)]

[FISHING IS NOT ONLY FISHING]

99

It’s sad to know that’s most of us rely on the govt to implement ideas for us, how many of u have had pleasant experince with govt style of service? But yet forgoten that govt are made of individuals like u and me. Althought i can’t give any direct solutions after the contradictions, i believe by passing words n lead by example might offer some help… Most ppl don know that ecosystem needs diversity to survive. If the fishes goes, human might follows too. We humans are human because we evolve along wateredges.

100
quote:
Originally posted by Gerard
It's sad to know that's most of us rely on the govt to implement ideas for us, how many of u have had pleasant experince with govt style of service? But yet forgoten that govt are made of individuals like u and me. Althought i can't give any direct solutions after the contradictions, i believe by passing words n lead by example might offer some help... Most ppl don know that ecosystem needs diversity to survive. If the fishes goes, human might follows too. We humans are human because we evolve along wateredges.

Yes Gerard, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Passing the knowledge through word of mouth is what we are trying to do, even if we get accused of “following a fad” or being “fashion people”.